It is important to know why women leave the IT industry. Men? who cares!

notIsugarpie · 2014-10-05T19:01:26+00:00

There is also a pipeline problem. When I was at Cal, in the early part of the millenium (one of the best tech schools in the country) I took a CS class with over a 150 guys and 3 girls. Understandably, most employers cater their programming work towards men, because men are the most likely people to be in the industry. Want to read something hilarious? Try reading the recent Slate article about where the marriable men are (a follow-up to the 91 eligible men for every eligible woman rubbish). The #1 destination? The silicon valley (where I live) because it was heavy with unmarried men with good incomes (translation: heavy with programmers and electrical engineers). The crack at the end of the article about "but maybe marrying a programmer isn't your thing" pissed me off. That's my job, its what I do for a living, and I'm good at it.

I have to be on-call all the time. If that means working weekends, that's what it means. If that means running to the office when my boss sends me a text, that's what it means. If that means not leaving the office until past seven and showing up at seven AM (which happens frequently) that's what it means. If it means staying up until 12:30 AM when I would really rather be in bed (which happened just this morning, and also last week) to check to be sure a client's program executed correctly, then that's what it means. If a bug pops up, it has to be fixed right now, not tomorrow, not the next day, but right now. If you can't deliver that, then your boss will find someone who can.

I'm in a highly competitive position in one of the most highly competitive places on earth. The upshot though is that if you're good, the rewards are obscene. My income has increased each of the last five years, and I fully expect 2015 to be my best year ever, and I think the future will only get better. What I do is not for everyone, many men, who have families, can't do it (its not just women who leave the profession when they have kids, men do too, because they want to spend time with their children, they want to watch soccer games, help with homework, be around when their kids need them, but nobody cares about that). I'm the lead developer and my friend is the software tester and QA guy. We work long hours, the other people in our office, who have families (which includes the men) get to work between 8:30 and 9 and leave at 5 sharp. The other guys have wives, and children to take care of. That is not going to cut it at the job I do. When I was young, my father, who was a programmer before me, was absent for much of my childhood. I understand why now.

Again, the sacrifices are enormous, but so are the rewards if you succeed. People need to understand, before they choose a career, what the balance is going to be. If you can't cut it, you need to know as soon as possible and get out. Doctors also face enormous pressure at their jobs. Their hours are long. The beauricratic hoops they have to jump through to treat their patients are incredible. The years of education they have to go through are stressful, expensive and difficult. Lots of people want to be doctors (because of the money) but most people, if they could walk in a doctor's shoes for three days, would quickly come to the conclusion that this line of work wasn't for them. Same thing with my job, if you could try my job for a week, you would probably conclude it wasn't for you. The thing about my job is that you have to learn, always, you always have to be willing to teach and willing to learn. If you're not learning new and better ways to do things, every single day, or inventing new ways to do things, you'll stagnate. Its like being in school for the rest of your life. You don't show up to work and do the same thing each day. Every day is different, and is a new challenge. A client wants us to integrate their current customer service process with Salesforce (Salesforce is a silicon valley tech company, I drive by their building on Highway 101 all the time). I have no idea how to use Salesforce, I have no idea what their product does, what its limitations are, or how to integrate it. However, I will learn and I will complete the project. I don't know how I'll learn it yet, I just know that I will, because I've always done so in the past. No one will help me. I won't be put through Salesforce training, I'll just learn it by myself, because that is what I've always done, and in time, I'll get good at using it, because that is also what I have always done. My first job, out of school, was with sharepoint. I didn't get a class, or a tutor or training. My boss plopped a Sharepoint book on my desk and said "read it and learn it, because this is what we're doing" and I did. Some people can handle this, most people can't.

iggybdawg · 2014-10-05T21:15:44+00:00

Men in IT face the same problems with their employers. The flow of shit from employer to employee is not gendered. Only the reaction of the employees being shat on is gendered.

liquidfirex · 2014-10-05T21:46:12+00:00

I never really understood the whole idea of "we need to get more X in the X field". With the exception of maybe education, I don't see the need for more women/men/minorities in any field. It seems like an indirect way of saying the right person wasn't picked for the job because they were discriminated against. Ok. Make that the issue then, not "we need more X in this field". Saying you need more x in a field results in inequalities more than it equalizes them in my opinion.

Also why is IT such a hot topic? Why not, we need more Women in the coal mining or oil drilling business? We need more male teachers and nurses?

Why do we NEED more women in IT?

redpillbanana · 2014-10-05T17:36:03+00:00

Tech positions are not like "softer" jobs such as teaching, HR, marketing, social work, event organizers, etc. There is much competition and pressure to perform. You need to constantly learn and keep your skills up-to-date. Correctness is extremely important and your code has to work or it will bring down the system. If something does go wrong, you need to find the bug and fix it right now - you can't just go home at 5pm, and if you fix it wrong, you're getting a call at home.

Honestly, most of the complaints from the women in the article seemed to revolve around being unable to handle the pressure. The woman who negotiated 12 weeks off unpaid but still had to handle support issues - well she's not a very good negotiator.

Literally 28 of the 30 people in our company were white, straight men under 35. I was the only woman. I was one of only two gay people. I was the only person of color other than one guy from Japan. My coworkers called me Halle Berry. As in, ‘Oh look, Halle Berry broke the website today.’ I’m pretty sure for some of them I’m the only actual black person they’ve ever spoken to. Everyone was the same, and no one was like me. How could I stay in that situation?

Ok, admittedly it is really stupid that they called her Halle Berry. Honestly, though, it makes me wonder how often she broke the website? My experience working with many women and minorities is that everyone is afraid to criticize them because they fear a discrimination lawsuit (and I'm a minority). This causes much resentment as others feel like they don't have the same sort of immunity, and they have to pick up the slack when they make mistakes.

I love coding. I have a masters in CS [computer science]. I worked in tech for two decades. So many women like me, so highly trained and for what? It was hard enough being the only woman on most projects. Try being the only woman over 40. Doesn’t matter how good you are, or even if your colleagues respect you. Eventually you get tired of being the odd duck. I took all my experience and started my own thing where I could make the rules. I’m never going back.

This is the one woman I admired because her reaction to feeling uncomfortable at the workplace was to start her own thing. Bill Burr said it well in this interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Pn1RVZu-24

"Quit waiting around for other people to do shit for you."

2014-10-05T17:07:35+00:00

No one makes parents have kids, certainly not an employer. If one responsibility conflicts with another, a choice must be made--the same way the choice was made to have a kid.

GenderNeutralLanguag · 2014-10-05T17:53:24+00:00

It is just and fair that people are asking why women leave IT. The field is mostly male and females drop out much more often than men. Men leaving IT isn't a big issue for the industry. Now if you want a good comparison, look at teaching. Where are the studies and reports and analysis of why men are dropping out of teaching and young men not entering. A study on why women leave teaching would be as out of place as a study on why men leave IT.

What we need is more attention on why Men leave teaching, just like we need attention on why women leave IT.

2014-10-05T22:23:02+00:00

Tech is a meritocracy, as every job should be. Your work says who you are and what you can do. Every person I've ever seen leave tech could not keep up with the their supposed peers or otherwise perform appropriately, both men and women.

theQuandary · 2014-10-05T21:53:49+00:00

I just worked three straight days (63 hours with only 30 minutes of sleep during that period) because we had a deadline for our code. Not one of the women at our company did that (they simply went home -- I doubt any men could have done similar without putting their job in jeopardy).

When I was in a startup, this kind of push happened frequently and there isn't much of an option if you want to complete. Women in general simply refuse to do that and instead complain about how unfriendly startups and tech in general is toward women (as if it's friendly to men). It's as if they want all the rewards with none of the same sacrifice.

Space_Ninja · 2014-10-05T23:39:56+00:00

Yeah, it's the culture. The culture of having to work for a living. Companies are run to make money, and not to just give women something to do in between pregnancies.

ProphetChuck · 2014-10-05T17:19:35+00:00

Man or women, I have a business to run not some social club. If you can't deal with it, leave. That's capitalism baby.

Nomenimion · 2014-10-05T23:31:09+00:00

Tech needs women like a fish needs a bicycle.

ChristopherBurr · 2014-10-06T04:01:06+00:00

Women leave IT because the hours are really long and there is intense pressure. If something breaks in production, you can't just leave and go home and fix it tomorrow. It just doesn't work that way. You have to work around the clock until it's fixed. Most of the women I know that have left the industry did it not only because of the pressure, but also because they had husbands that made enough money so that they could take time off and find something they really wanted to do.

A lot of people like programming, and women are just as good at it as men are. A lot of us find it enjoyable, like solving puzzles. The issue is the pressure of IT in the corporate environment. I'm willing to bet that far fewer women leave IT from non-profits or academia .. just sayin'

FissureKing · 2014-10-05T23:45:57+00:00

Every one gets a nickname. In my company all the ones after a certain period get a nickname walking in the door that is some form of "Ben" for reasons too long to go in to. Big guy gets hired "Big Ben", latino guy was shortly "MexiBen", russian guy just hired "Benski".

There is a culture if you aren't prepared to be part of it, it will make fun of you. It does not matter one bit what race, age, or sex you are.

2014-10-06T01:55:00+00:00

So is this another woman that agrees to do the job who has a set of responsibilities to carry out, and agrees to them.

But because of choices she made, having a child. She know feels it's normal to be upset when her boss expects her to keep on doing the job she agreed to in the first place when she gets back from mat leave.

It's bewildering how the logic skips over that and skips ahead to: I'm just a mom, cut me some slack.

liquidfirex · 2014-10-05T19:35:13+00:00

women don't really belong in IT. with few stark exceptions. sure there were many women who pioneered IT, but those aren't the kind of women who are pushed to it.

do most men belong in It? not really.

Title	It is important to know why women leave the IT industry. Men? who cares!
Author	graffic
Upvotes	41
Comments	62
Date	October 5, 2014 4:44 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2id8ha/it_is_important_to_know_why_women_leave_the_it/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/it-is-important-to-know-why-women-leave-the-it.995011 https://theredarchive.com/post/995011

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