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Should people hold themselves accountable for their standards, or be entitled to them without criticism?

December 7, 2022
4 upvotes

Reposting this here since I think I've been shadowbanned from PPD?

I think most of you have noticed that one of reddit's favorite pastimes is making fun of women who won't date broke men or men under 6 feet. In recent years, I've seen women throughout dating subs and feminist subs protest this claiming "women are entitled to their preferences" demanding not to have their standards criticized. However, I've noticed that these same women will be the first to absolutely chastise and tear down a man for having bod count preferences, telling them to recognize their misogyny and all that. But isn't that sort of hypocritical, considering height and wealth are just as much patriarchal standards for men as chastity is for women? So for this post, I would like you to choose one of two positions and explain your thoughts on the matter.

Option 1: Everyone is entitled to their standards, should not have to lower them, and should not be forced to debate their standards.

If you go with this, it means women can demand men who are 6 feet, 6 inches, 6-figured, have 6 packs, pay the full bill for all dates, and anything else. All of these standards are rooted in patriarchal notions, but women should not be forced to debate them. However, men will not be held accountable for patriarchal standards either. Men should be able to express body count preferences, femininity/passivity/non-assertiveness preferences, preferences for women who will be financially reliant on them, and anything you can imagine. All of the aforementioned standards are rooted in patriarchy, but since everyone is entitled to their standards, men should not be forced to defend their body count/femininity preferences just as women should not be forced to defend their height/masculinity preferences.

Option 2: Standards can have deep roots in cultural notions, and even if people can't be forced to date anyone, they have to examine why they have preferences that reflect patriarchal ideals.

This option means if a man expresses body count preferences, he deserves to be called out, shamed, and questioned until he reveals misogyny/insecurity. If a man wants a tradwife or just a woman who is very passive and/or shy, he should be ridiculed as someone who might be too insecure to handle a successful and educated woman. However, women should still get shamed for chasing tall guys, as that might reflect internalized toxic masculinity. If a woman incessantly demands a financial overachiever, she should be called out as a gold digger. Women who turn down bisexual men should be lambasted for biphobia. Just as men will be called out for patriarchal standards, women will be rebuked for the same.

I ask this question because I noticed hypocrisy from both genders (but mostly women) where they think only they shouldn't be called out for having standards, while everyone else's standards are shallow and bigoted. So, I ask this question to get your thoughts on the matter.

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Post Information
Title Should people hold themselves accountable for their standards, or be entitled to them without criticism?
Author MachiNarci
Upvotes 4
Comments 16
Date December 7, 2022 5:43 AM UTC (3 months ago)
Subreddit /r/AllPillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/AllPillDebate/should-people-hold-themselves-accountable-for.1142617
https://theredarchive.com/post/1142617
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/AllPillDebate/comments/zetc0g/should_people_hold_themselves_accountable_for/
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Comments

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

edit: bah, only women allowed to respond, dammit

[–]SwimmingTheme3736 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

No one should be made t feel they should lower their standards, the natural consequences are if they are too high you won’t get what your looking for

[–]noonereadsthisstuff 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thats exactly right.

Its not about hacing standards, its about having realistic standards and being realistic about what the opposite sex finds attractive.

[–]Peacesquad 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And women fail most in this department

[–]MachiNarci[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So, you believe men shouldn't inherently be criticized for having standards like the ones I mentioned?

[–]SwimmingTheme3736 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If men want those standards then carry on, but don’t moan if women do t like them,

[–]croatian_guy_ 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Everyone can have their standards but they also have to accept if people do not care

[–]no_bling_just_dingself-aware MSTOW 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

(im male) the thing is women can shame you for your standards while claiming entitlement to theirs because they can succeed despite that behavior (and i can say this about any other negative personality trait. i've encountered some vicious folks who happened to be living on easy mode by having the right chromosomes.). it's a matter of who has the upper hand, not who's right and wrong.

my opinion is, anyone can have any standard they want you want the clone of mia khalifa or you want billionaire terachad born on mars go for it, shaming can't change that. but it's reasonable to point out that such things may not be attainable depending on who you yourself are and sometimes the motives behind a standard can be scrutinized especially if they run counter to your own ideals and challenging them can help you long term (such as being a feminist but chasing violent abusive men, or claiming to be an alpha macho man while going after poly women that cuck you.)

[–]10throwawayantsy 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

I don't really care about what anyone's standards are. If you're marketable on the dating pool, your standards don't matter, and you'll be able to get what you want.

Me dating a guy that is 6'0 isn't hard. Me dating a guy that isn't broke is...really not hard, so why would I do either of those things? I can't say I've ever benefited in any way from lowering my standards, but obviously I would be occasionally willing to date someone shorter than 6'0 if they offer other things. I wouldn't date anyone broke because we have fundamentally different lifestyles, ambitious, and hobbies.

As for your "body count" every man has his own imaginary number of what the "perfect woman" will have. Height and $$ are tangible things people either have or don't have. Someone could lie to you about their body count, and you will never find out. It's ridiculous that men fixate on this, because there is literally no way of knowing.

Depending on what your exact # limit is on women, it's going to be hard to find women who both sexually attractive, and have sex drives that are high enough to have sex with you, but not other people. People also aren't ducks waiting around for you to date them and have sex with them. They're allowed to live their lives before they know you even exist.

[–]no_bling_just_dingself-aware MSTOW 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

im gonna be honest with you, i'd strongly prefer a virgin woman. not for some "toxic masculinity" construct like a feminist would argue, but more because it'd put me at ease being a virgin myself. if i was out for instant action just add water, i know i wouldn't care. but i'm low sociosexuality. so for me, it seems like the same sort of proposition as cutting myself or snorting heroin to go for it.

and i'm realistic about that: it's probably not happening at my age, and just as i could go to a sex worker tomorrow or have sex with a gay male (i am heterosexual) and lie about it to a woman that would reject me for those things, i acknowledge that it's probably meaningless to ask for a woman's count when she might have both the ability and the motive to lie about it aside from the fact it's rare for them to not have done the deed, so i'm more fixated on the underlying character traits. i don't want to feel like me and my partner are running different tracks in life or have to exorcise the ghosts of her exes out of her mind for her to fulfill my needs.

but calling it a matter of sex drive is being reductive: there are other factors like self restraint, values etc that go into whether or not you'll mate with somebody.

[–]10throwawayantsy 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's fine. I don't thik your reasoning for wanting to date a virgin is bad.

"but calling it a matter of sex drive is being reductive: there are other factors like self restraint, values etc that go into whether or not you'll mate with somebody."

I don't really agree with that. People with high sex drives can have a constant urge to have sex. People with lower sex drives think about it once a week. It's much easier for one of those groups to resist sex than the other.

[–]Secret-Ad8479 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Why do you only want tallfags?

[–]10throwawayantsy 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

How did you become this unfuckable in a sentence lmao

[–]Middle-Leading6166 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why do you though

[–]LouisonTheClown 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

"I don't really care about what anyone's standards are."

Criticizes men's bodycount standards.

[–]10throwawayantsy 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean I think it's dumb. I don't have a personal stake in it, though

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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