~ archived since 2018 ~

there is no nobility in being a loser

rogueamazondrone
March 13, 2023
2 upvotes
/r/AllPillDebate

being a loser does not make you better or give you a moral upper hand.

nice guys are not really nice because they lie to themselves about having more integrity than chads. you don't. if you could pump and dump women and treat them like sex toys, you would. if you could switch your gf out as soon as she turns 25 like leonardo dicaprio, you would. and unfortunately many would dip into even lower ages (due to their lower standards) if it weren't for the law too.

it's not that normies/incels are not depraved, they just don't have the option. that's like someone saying "i've been in jail for 5 years and haven't committed any crimes." well no shit, you were locked up. so no, there are no nice guys. only guys without the option to pump and dump. 99% of men who have the option to be whores and have a harem of women do so.

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Title there is no nobility in being a loser
Author rogueamazondrone
Upvotes 2
Comments 51
Date March 13, 2023 6:37 PM UTC (2 weeks ago)
Subreddit /r/AllPillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/AllPillDebate/there-is-no-nobility-in-being-a-loser.1176367
https://theredarchive.com/post/1176367
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/AllPillDebate/comments/11qhmod/there_is_no_nobility_in_being_a_loser/
Red Pill terms in post
pump and dumpincelstandardsthe black pill
Top posts by rogueamazondrone

The real reason transracialism is frowned upon.

1 upvotes
March 20, 2023
/r/AllPillDebate
Comments

[–]LainselBluePill 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Even chads don't all go on incessant pumping and dumping. A lot of them just do ltrs so in that sense, it wouldn't surprise me if a gigantic portion of normies/incels would rather have infinite options for ltrs opposed to hook ups.

That's another blackpill btw. It's not even all chads doing all the pumping, it's probably like only 20% of them getting all the women and engaging in it to begin with. Even Ottoman Sultans didn't have harems as big as that

[–]kurumon24 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

you probably see ugly thugmaxxers or oofy doofies with gfs outside

[–]debatelord_1 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I swear "nice guy" is such a 2010 meme.

I mean seriously nobody in the current generation believes that being nice will get you pussy. I have never heard this "Oh I'm such a nice guy" from zoomers.

Maybe some retarded boomers incels used to believe it but today with the internet fucking teenagers get redpilled at max 14 on tiktok.

You would fuck teenagers only if you could

My porn-induced milf fetish begs to differ.

[–]kurumon24 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

a lot of dudes write or imply that teens are the most attractive, i don't believe this is most of men but its weird that this is trying to being psyopped in peoples minds

[–]orbstnedifnocdesab 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

nah teenagers on tiktok are mostly blackpilled

[–]crypto_druid -1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

A lot of men who exhibit nice guy behavior have unprocessed anger. It could manifest as anger towards women, themselves, passive aggressiveness, or even a general rage.

Too many men carry around unprocessed emotions in their bodies and it holds them back in life. Women are way better at reading into subtle cues than most men and when you’re holding energetic blocks in your body, they pick them right up. Instead of dealing with this anger, men run from it. They push it down and repress it. And on the surface they instead play the nice guy. Ignoring your own desires in order to please women and having weak boundaries are two examples of nice guy behavior. These often crop up when a man fears confrontation.

Being afraid to piss anybody off and fear of managing the give and take of anger – fear of this form of tension – is at it’s core one of the main drivers of nice guy behavior. These “nice guys” are in the second stage – they’ve developed more emotional awareness than the first stage guys, but unfortunately they’ve surrendered much or all of their masculinity and backbone in the process. Women hate this because these men are inauthentic and incongruent in everything they do and say.

Because they’re filtering themselves to avoid tension, potential rejection, or abandonment. The only reason women ever put up with it is because it’s become rampant in our society.

But when they are dating or in a relationship with a nice guy, that’s where you see the “incompetent, doofus husband or boyfriend controlled by the annoyed wife or girlfriend” stereotype that Hollywood loves to make light of in sitcoms.

The true “real man” archetype has become a rarity like a mythical beast. This is why so many women settle for (or end up running away from the nice guy back to) the first stage asshole stereotype.

The Third Stage Man

Become present to your unprocessed emotions and commit to releasing/letting them go. Just taking this step mentally can change your entire energy around women.

The truth of the matter is that women are rooting for you and they can sense it when your internal momentum shifts. When you realize that you need to deal with your nice guy and release unprocessed emotions, you’ve already taken a huge step towards the third stage. (Self-awareness.)

The third stage man is a confident leader who women love. It's not about leading women. He’s a seen as a confident leader because he’s leading in his own life first. This isn’t just about the obvious parts of your life like career or fitness, but your emotional health as well.

The third stage man maintains the access to his emotions that second-stage guys are known for, but embraces his masculine grounding and decisive energy from the first stage to process emotions. He’s unapologetically real and unfiltered. He’s unperturbed but simultaneously stays open and present in the face of others’ emotional storms and rocky times in his life. He feels deeply into himself, others, and is decisive about what’s best for the moment. The Third Stage Man isn’t a nice guy – he’s a good guy. He’s a solid guy. He’s a direct, forward, authentic guy.

[–]-AvatarAang- 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I really like your comment, and it's advice that definitely applies to a long-time people-pleaser like myself. So thank you for affirming the path I am trying to walk down.

[–]crypto_druid 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

No problem brother, I wish more people would have self awareness

[–]-AvatarAang- 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Me too. Buy that's why posts like yours are invaluable: to teach those men what they presently do not recognize.

[–]crypto_druid 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you think they appreciate being held accountable ?

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump -1 points0 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Speak for yourself, dudeling. I was never all that into casual sex. I could only ever handle one woman, a harem would be far too much of a headache. I HATED dating women under 30 years old. LTR sex is king, it gets better over time!

[–]kurumon24 0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy Link

yet you will screech at a woman for saying her boyfriend is a short indian guy because ''muh stats''

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

I will? Where have I ever done that? What's your proof of this headass of a claim?

[–]kurumon24 -1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

because it's a tone deaf comment, you not being like those guys doesn't mean a noticeable amount of those guys exist and will act like ''players/bad boys'' if given the opportunity, a lot of incels are edgy guys who just don't have the looks or status to be ''alpha''

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

No, your argument is brain dead. There's a ton of guys out there outside the Redpill bullshit world who don't want harems. Stop hanging around these incels and touch grass.

[–]kurumon24 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

and i can also say when i go outside and ''touch grass'' most couples i see aren't made out of chads but average dudes, yet you will try to say ''girls all like muh chads/tyrones'' because tinder stats, or at least, you are hanging in places where this sentiment is repeated everyday.

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

yet you will try to say ''girls all like muh chads/tyrones'' because tinder stats, or at least, you are hanging in places where this sentiment is repeated everyday.

No I don't say that. What I say is women date men who aren't Chads/Tyrones and marry them all the time. Problem is those marriages disintegrate into divorce, cuckolding or (more commonly) dead bedrooms. But non-Chads do date and get married.

[–]kurumon24 -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

men still cheat more than women on average.

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not more than younger women. And there's also dead bedroom marriages - which drives a lot of men to cheat.

[–]no_bling_just_dingself-aware MSTOW janitor // in genes we trust 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

only by self reports and only boomers

[–]BitsAndBobs304 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

is this a joke ?

[–]rogueamazondrone[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

why would it be?

[–]Opening_Pattern_301GloriousPill 0 points1 point  (29 children) | Copy Link

a lot of nice guys simply lack the traits that make men attractive, showing common human courtesy to a woman is essential but not the only ingredient, you need dough, tomato and cheese to make pizza, but you cant just flatten some dough and call it a pizza when it lacks the other ingredients.

Like picture this, you meet a woman whose teeth are rotten and her breath is repulsive, that would be an inmediat dealbreaker right? but now you meet a woman whose mouth hygiene is proper, just because of that you wont consider her an attractive woman. Well being nice at least in the normal way is. Dont confuse being nice to a woman with being her servant, just because you dont spend extreme amounts of money on her or you dont jump straight to a relationship with her when you barely know her that doesnt makes you an asshole and that has nothing to do with being nice, not to mention a lot of nice guys also end up giving the time of the day to really undeserving women. u/RatDontPanic

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 1 point2 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

A lot of nice guys are outcompeted by absolute dirtbags with no decency at all. Saying human courtesy is not enough is not accurate; men without human decency get women too. Which is to say a nice guy is worse of a person than an actual hardened criminal...

[–]Opening_Pattern_301GloriousPill 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

whats so good about those women that we should care about their opinion on men?

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Because if the literal criminals outcompete you, everyone else will, too.

[–]Opening_Pattern_301GloriousPill 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

outcompete you on what? getting some trashy women to sleep with him? he can keep it, again, whats so good about those women that their opinion on men should matter? btw get rid of this idea that somehow women validate how good and worthy a man is, that is incorrect.

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's not about validation, it is about not being lonely. And if you can't even compete for low value women how are you going to compete for high value women?

[–]no_bling_just_dingself-aware MSTOW janitor // in genes we trust 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

it's not that linear (ask u/eviessVeralan) but the matthew effect applies regardless. guy who's had his share of LVW might have higher standards & better confidence and skills later on and so will beat you to the finish line even after a detour & if he doesn't, well, you have a lot more to lose than he ever did.

[–]kurumon24 0 points1 point  (22 children) | Copy Link

ok

cases like this surely exist but what the guys don't get is the environment of those men and what kind of women they get, it's usually low class trashy environments and low class trashy women.

now, excuse me for sounding casually racist but you can't adress this without bringing race into it, the guy involved and the women impregnated are black, and unfortunately, black american culture has disproportionely more low class or trashy people in it(not all of them, but disproportionally) so of course you see this more.

i'm aware you're black and why this might be noticeable and of concern to you and you're not in the wrong to call this out, however, incels see posts like this and think this is the norm in females in ivy league schools or the norm in their middle/high class white neighbourhood which is manipulative of them.

probably your average dude can ''ascend'' in extremely low class/status environments too, but they either chooose not to(like any sane person would) or simply reside in more comfy environments, you think impregnating 4 is bad an incel looking french guy impregnated 600+ women in africa simply because he was thrown in an environment where everyone was lower status than him, are you guys willing to go very low though?

it's not badboypill, simply the women badboys communicate with are easy lays in general.

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point  (21 children) | Copy Link

probably your nerdy dude can ''ascend'' in extremely low class/status environments too, but they either chooose not to(like any sane person would) or simply in more comfy environments.

The problem is more systemic than that. Low class trashy women simply give into the law of gravity. Everyone is in the gravity well. There is actually a worse fate for nice guys than failing to get the woman - being dumped for some exciting psychopath later on, or (80% more likely) falling into the dead bedroom trap.

now, excuse me for sounding casually racist but you can't adress this without bringing race into it, the guy involved and the women impregnated are black, and unfortunately, black american culture has disproportionely more low class or trashy people in it(not all of them, but disproportionally) so of course you see this more.

That happens in trailer parks too, dude. Donald Trump, as much of a shitball he is, has had three wives.

i'm aware you're black and why this might be noticeable and of concern to you and you're not in the wrong to call this out, however, incels see posts like this and think this is the norm in females in ivy league schools or the norm in their middle/high class white neighbourhood which is manipulative of them.

That nerdy guy faces less of a chance of rejection out the gate and jaw-droppingly high odds after getting married. Again, dead bedrooms when she loses interest in him, because older women tend to cheat less and divorces are less common in high class couples.

Those badass criminals outcompete him in her mind, and being in a relationship where cuckolding and divorce doesn't happen won't mean he hasn't lost out.

It can get literally this fucking bad for the nerdy guy.

[–]kurumon24 0 points1 point  (19 children) | Copy Link

''The problem is more systemic than that.Low class trashy women simply give into the law of gravity. Everyone isin the gravity well. There is actually a worse fate for nice guys thanfailing to get the woman - being dumped for some exciting psychopathlater on, or (80% more likely) falling into the dead bedroom trap.''

yet you don't see a girl from ivy league, a rich businesswoman or simply a higher class/status woman express interest ini such guys commonly at all, mostly just ragebait instead of reality.

''That happens in trailer parks too, dude. Donald Trump, as much of a shitball he is, has had three wives.''

yes because trailer parks are also trashy low class places, i already mentioned cultural enviroment matters more than race here (just happens that black people are represented in this more for obvious reasons)

most incels are ''dark triad'' if you go to incels is forums you will see most of their content is edgelording 7/24, yet no girl who lurks those places on internet actually messages them or is interested sexually.

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point  (18 children) | Copy Link

yet you don't see a girl from ivy league, a rich businesswoman or simply a higher class/status woman express interest ini such guys commonly at all, mostly just ragebait instead of reality.

Honestly who knows who they're cheating with. The more common problem by far isn't even that, it's dead bedrooms. We're far too obsessed with marital infidelity and not paying attention to the death of couples' lives - and the important part is this is something that doesn't happen to badboys.

yes because trailer parks are also trashy low class places, i already mentioned cultural enviroment matters more than race here (just happens that black people are represented in this more for obvious reasons)

My point about Trump is this isn't just a poor people's problem. Dirtbags, rich or poor, are plundering the dating market.

most incels are ''dark triad'' if you go to incels is forums you will see most of their content is edgelording 7/24, yet no girl who lurks those places on internet actually messages them or is interested sexually.

They're unsuccessfully dark triad. Or trying to be and failing.

[–]kurumon24 0 points1 point  (17 children) | Copy Link

''Honestly who knows who they're cheating with. The more common problem by
far isn't even that, it's dead bedrooms. We're far too obsessed with
marital infidelity and not paying attention to the death of couples'
lives - and the important part is this is something that doesn't happen
to badboys.''

badboys also get cheated on or get cucked more often or have short time relationships, simply because the women that like them are not relationship material typically. again, you're thinking of this in a woman vs man while not even observing what different kinds of men or women do.

''My point about Trump is this isn't just a poor people's problem. Dirtbags, rich or poor, are plundering the dating market.''

he eastern europemaxxed lmao, they probably are golddiggers which isn't new information to anyone

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point  (16 children) | Copy Link

badboys also get cheated on or get cucked more often or have short time relationships, simply because the women that like them are not relationship material typically. again, you're thinking of this in a woman vs man while not even observing what different kinds of men or women do.

The short time relationship thing is believable but the bad boy is literally more attractive. Literally he's a sex symbol, Mr. decent guy is not (unless he's really good looking then it's his looks, not his decency, that has mass appeal with women).

he eastern europemaxxed lmao, they probably are golddiggers which isn't new information to anyone

Marla Maples was born in the US. Ivana Trump was of Czech descent but she came from Canada. Half euro maxxed. Only Melania was straight from overseas.

[–]kurumon24 0 points1 point  (15 children) | Copy Link

''The short time relationship thing is believable but the bad boy is
literally more attractive. Literally he's a sex symbol, Mr. decent guy
is not (unless he's really good looking then it's his looks, not his decency, that has mass appeal with women).''

fangirling over a kpop idol, a hollywood actor, a musician or a sportsman is far more mainstream than fangirling over a thug, why are you pretending this isn't the case?

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point  (14 children) | Copy Link

fangirling over a kpop idol, a hollywood actor, a musician or a sportsman is far more mainstream than fangirling over a thug, why are you pretending this isn't the case?

That's the media trying to hype alternative men. I mean, it is a goal worth achieving, but I mean let's face reality here.

Criminal offenders also had more reproductive partners, were less often married, more likely to get remarried if ever married, and had more often contracted a sexually transmitted disease than non-offenders. Importantly, the increased reproductive success of criminals was explained by a fertility increase from having children with several different partners. We conclude that criminality appears to be adaptive in a contemporary industrialized country, and that this association can be explained by antisocial behavior being part of an adaptive alternative reproductive strategy.

[–]Eyesofmalice 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think this is a very useful point to make, because is imposible to prove. If incels this and that. Well incels don’t and that’s reality. If tomorrow society changes and incels start raping women, chopping them into pieces and beating them as normies do every day, then I’d be a fair point to make.

But thinking that losers would be just as bad as winners are is wrong, because for you to be a winner you need to be an asshole. It’s been demonstrated through history that the excluded and the powerless is always taken advantage in horrendous ways.

It’s as stupid as saying “if you were rich, you’d be as exploitative and ruthless as billionaires “ when the reality is that I’m not a billionaire, and I’m not in a position to exploited hundreds of thousands.

Every person has to carry their own conscience, if you’re a winner and you feel guilty enough to want to project your guilt into people who live wholly different lives from yours then I’d say you’re lying to yourself.

[–]rogueamazondrone[S] -1 points0 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

But thinking that losers would be just as bad as winners are is wrong, because for you to be a winner you need to be an asshole.

this is a blackpill discussion, so i'm referring to people who subscribe to that ideology. the blackpill says genetics is the reason why some men are at the top, not their personality or them being assholes. a man can win with women just by having good bone structure, a big athletic frame, and being tall, which are related to genetics.

if incels were given physically attractive traits tomorrow, they'd probably do the same things chads do.

[–]Eyesofmalice 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

But that’s magical thinking dude.

If my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle, but she doesn’t so she isn’t.

Incels have the outlook on the world we have because we see romantic relationships from the outside.

Like why not say the opposite, take a person who is good and kind and murder their family, torture them, and then you’ll find he becomes bad.

Which is obvious. If you change the conditions in which a person lives, they’re going to change. These theories of humans as being born good and being born evil are Disney essentialism.

Your post boils down to “incels are evil because they look evil, unlike good people who are good since they look good”

Regardless of the fact that the most successful and attractive members of society have been responsible for the deaths of millions.

[–]rogueamazondrone[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

i never said incels are evil because they look evil. i have no idea where you got that. if anything, chads cause more destruction in women's lives, but incels theoretically do not have better morals. they want to do the same things.

[–]Eyesofmalice 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

morality is tied to actuality. possibility does not amount to culpability. as things stand, norms commit the majority of the crime, inches don't. not even by a long shot, not even percentage wise.

Evil is part of human spirit, whoever think themselves a good person on the inside is lying to themselves. everyone desires evil, good comes hen you suppress that evil.

incels haven't done much when compared to normies. not to excuse ourselves, the mysoginy by various inches is rampant, and the fascist idealization is as well. but those are not exclusive to inches, you have presidents who defend nazis, right wingers who are winners in life defending the abolition of abortion.

Those policies pass because of the immoral acts of winners. Incels are potentially evil, but their evil would amount to the same evil already committed by winners. which again goes back to my point, people aren't essences but they're a product of their environment to a huge degree. if you take incense out of inceldome, then they stop being incense.

your post hinges on the assumption that incelpdom is this inherent characteristic that is inside people when it is not. incelpdom is a label use to name a social group which sees that the current feminist project doesn't offer them anything and that the hegemonic patriarchy actively exploits them.

if you change those conditions we stop being inches, therefore I'd be impossible for an incel who is no longer an incel in an Ideal situation, to represent incel morality.

if an Incel is no longer an incel and becomes a winner, then they're no longer incels. it's like saying, if I took a bear cub, and raised it in a domestic environment, that prove that bears and then release it to the wild, that bear dying form starvation proves that bears suck at surviving in the wild and should be domesticated. like you changed the conditions of the existence of the subject at the chore of your proposition, thefore in your proposed ideal the thing that IT is meant to represent no longer is IT.

[–]rogueamazondrone[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

morality is tied to actuality. possibility does not amount to culpability. as things stand, norms commit the majority of the crime, inches don't. not even by a long shot, not even percentage wise.

I don't know if there's a way to even verify this.

Incels are potentially evil, but their evil would amount to the same evil already committed by winners.

right. we agree.

[–]Eyesofmalice 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

But being potentially evil is not the same as being actually evil. A person who thinks of hooting someone is not morally the same as someone who shots someone.

[–]rogueamazondrone[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

well that has more to do with the ethics of intent vs consequences and that's way out of the scope of what i care to discuss right now

[–]too_lazy_to_register 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

You know how people always find a way to rationalize the good-looking guys' horrible decisions? Like "he was misunderstood and lonely", "the victim must have asked for it", and so on?

Well, you've just came up with a second half of this mental gymnastics holy grail - a way to hate people for the stuff they never did.

[–]rogueamazondrone[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

wrong. it's not hate, it's honesty. and it's stuff they admit to wanting to do themselves and stuff they claim all men want due to biology/wanting to spread their seeds.

[–]too_lazy_to_register 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

How is it honesty to imagine all men like that? It's like saying "you'd be a cannibal too, you just don't have spare people around".

[–]rogueamazondrone[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

that's a false equivalence. and again, i'm not imagining anything. i'm repeating what incels have said themselves and what the manosphere claims men want: to spread their seed.

[–]no_bling_just_dingself-aware MSTOW janitor // in genes we trust 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

if you could pump and dump women like sex toys, you would

no, that's just you.

as for the rest, you're not wrong; as the romans say about oppression (though sexlessness is different), "the oppressed and oppressor are made of the same clay." but your post seems more like: "if the homeless had incomes, they'd buy drugs!"

whoever makes this accusation is just as self-serving if not more, with the motive of justifying their own status. so-called winners who say this would say this even towards losers who did have integrity - and they would see themselves in the right no matter what they did. i don't call myself a "nice guy" but i don't take this spiel seriously from, for example, a woman who's insured from reproductive failure by her XX chromosomes.

cheaters, opportunistic women and p&d'ers do not have more integrity than "nice guys" by virtue of getting what they wanted and morals have very little to do with who is and isn't a winner.

[–]Bothering-Hands 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Having casual sex does not make you a bad person. It's how you get casual sex what determines where you stand on the morality spectrum.

Do you make a woman believe you'll have a long-term relationship just to get her into bed? I think you're a bad person.
Do you have sex with a woman who already have a boyfriend or is married? You're definitely a bad person.

You can be a good person and have sex with no strings attached. Not all "chads" are cretins who are just looking to up their numbers and don't care (or even seek) to destroy courtships or marriages in the process. Likewise, if "normies" and ugly dudes had easy and constant access to casual encounters I think, as you state, many would be bad men; however, I also suspect that many others would keep their morals fairly intact.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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