~ archived since 2018 ~

Looking for advice for a friend

TheAceOfSpades1998

February 21, 2021

23 upvotes

/r/ExRedPill

My friend is almost 23 and has never had a woman, so in the last couple years he's fallen more and more down the rabbit hole of red pill. He comes to me and complains about how he can't get women and he can't get his life together and I give him advice from experience ( I have a girlfriend, making money, going back to school, etc.) I'll admit maybe my advice is kind of vague but I'm not really good at explaining my thoughts, but my general outlook has always been to be yourself, work on yourself, etc. (The somewhat cliche shit)

He's delusional, he hates women, the stuff he says makes absolutely zero sense to a sane person, and most of the time our conversations end in a fight.

I don't know a great lot about red pill but the bit I do know I know it's fucking stupid. But anyways, my question is: how do I help him? Is there anything I can say to him.

EDIT: Thank you everyone for the advice, it is appreciated

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Post Information

Title	Looking for advice for a friend
Author	TheAceOfSpades1998
Upvotes	23
Comments	31
Date	February 21, 2021 2:05 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/lomi52/looking_for_advice_for_a_friend/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/looking-for-advice-for-a-friend.744510 https://theredarchive.com/post/744510

Comments

[–]Soft-Neat811712 points13 points14 points 5 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheAceOfSpades1998[S] 11 points12 points13 points 5 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]reggae-mems21 points22 points23 points 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheAceOfSpades1998[S] 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]reggae-mems6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheAceOfSpades1998[S] 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]reggae-mems6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]StatusAnywhere83 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Word, no offense to OP but I would not subject anyone of any gender to that energy.

I had a female friend (I'm a woman) who had RP mentality but towards men(I don't know how else to put it because she didn't strike me as a feminist really). She often would tell me she hate guys and at first I just ignored it but then I started realizing she hated men over stupid shit. At first I figured she was just being emotional.

She would hate them for certain "masculine" hobbies she felt were stupid. She once sent me links to videos of men just doing things I thought were quirky and funny and say,

"Uhg see this is so stupid!! Guys are dumb!!!" And I would feel uncomfortable in myself because those were hobbies I too would be interested in if I had the friends to engage in them with.

She too was really insecure and afraid of abandonment and once told me she thought she might be bipolar. Honestly I think she was possibly Borderline but I digress.

Yet, she wanted a relationship? All of that noise and she wants a relationship... With a man! She seemed jealous when I told her I was engaged. And complain that men didn't want someone like her. Someone who doesn't have it together, who's a damsel type etc. Which to me, from my experience, that's what most of the young men in my life were going for but that's neither here nor there...

Anyway, I almost hooked her up with a friend of mine . But when I started to really see her for who she was I nope'd out of that idea and tried to get her to go to therapy. Which she refused because she claimed one therapist "rolled her eyes" at her so she wrote off all therapist after that.

I would never subject another man or woman to that insanity. If I as her FRIEND had to endure instability and arguments about abandonment that never occurred, her not understanding my romantic partner is prioritized over her, her not understanding that I'm not meant to regulate her emotions etc... Then imagine what she'd do to her romantic interests? So I stopped giving her dating advice and tried to push her in the direction of therapy cause Jesus fucking Christ.

But that didn't go well because we stopped being friends shortly after I started to realize she was draining me emotionally. People like this aren't good for anyone. If they do end up in relationships they either end up with people like them or with seemingly functional people. And if it's the latter the only outcome is destructive behavior that ends in the seemingly healthy person needing therapy from the trauma.

Just no OP Take his ass to therapy!

[–]TheAceOfSpades1998[S] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]StatusAnywhere81 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I will say the only difference between your friend and my former best friend is that he seems to have outburst. Hers was harder to see because she appeared more wounded and less aggressive. And she'd often had moments of clarity so it was enough to fly under my radar for years. But even that approach didn't hide the fact that her words and her actions were no where near in alignment with each other. And those few times she had "clarity" it only matter in that moment because she'd be getting reassurance and attention from me. But when came time for her to revisit that clarity and self reflect to see how what she discovered about herself may be in relation to why all her friendships, inability to date successfully and so on kept failing? Nope. Dumb as a sack of rocks. To bring it up would be abusive as far as she was concerned.

What happened to your friend? You have any idea where they are now or how they faired without you? Did they learn at all?

Long story short she and I stopped being friends. It started with her opening a conversation about being "abandoned and neglected". This didn't sit well with me because I had just recently seen her before the conversation presented itself, thinking she and I had a good time. I was wrong. Whenever I tried to discuss why I felt the way I felt I was always doing it wrong. Yet, she can express how she felt with no evidence of my being the root cause of her feelings(typical cluster b personality disordered thinking: "I feel bad so you must've did something" not "You did something so now I feel bad"). I also noticed at the time of the falling out, she only felt insecure about our friendship when my life would change for the better. I pointed this out during our falling out along with my noticing she copies many of my characteristics and ideas for self expression or my hobbies.

My doing this utterly destroyed an already toxic friendship. It was really hard because it wasn't as blatant as your friend. We had our moments yes, but generally on the surface she seemed supportive, well put together and so on. But her true colors started to show once I started to branch off and have a life worth living. And to me any friend who felt threatened by my thriving when they were around to see the abuse I endured when I was failing is not a friend of mine. Especially when I realized she appeared at her most comfortable when I was at my lowest.

I do not know where she is or how she's doing these days. We didn't really have any mutual friends. Any mutual friend we had mostly dropped her. I still chit chat with one of them on social media but I don't think they speak with her. The one time I tried to introduce her to my newly obtained friends she was purposely stand offish, left the gathering in less than an hour and later complained about having to be around them when we had our final argument. I only saw her social media after said argument and her profile bio said "I'm sick of people's shit". To me that says she still thinks everyone else is the problem and that, as she always use to tell me, "There's something about her that make people treat her like shit". And I think she will continue to think that way until she actually goes to therapy. However, she's unlikely to even do that over one incident that occurred. She also wouldn't seek therapy because she and I quote,

"Get's attached very quickly and very hard..."

I think this is a classic case of not everyone can be helped. When I noticed a pattern that results in negative shit that keeps happening around me I am quick to look in the mirror first. Some cases it's my fault others it's not my fault. But when you're dealing with people like this there's really no helping them. They are not born with eyes that can see. And your best bet is to walk away because they will keep draining you. You will end up being blamed for their shitty feelings simply cause you're the closest one to them. It's best to walk away and let them feel bad by them-damn-selves. Perhaps one day they will see they're still miserable regardless if people are there to blame or not and seek help on their own. Or they will continue to live in a state of denial. It's really their game at this point. And you my friend, are not obligated to play.

[–]OutsideBandicoot31 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]StatusAnywhere80 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I understand her pathology a little bit but it doesn't excuse her behavior, her entitlement to people putting up with said behavior whilst she does next to nothing to improve her mental state other than false claims of "owning" her flaws. Especially considering her mental state causes problems for people around her.

I understand childhood wounds, trust me, I myself have plenty. But it's no one's responsibility but my own. It may not be my fault but it is my responsibility. With that said yes I agree she does suffer from these deep seated wounds. She has admitted to me before that she struggles with insecurity and self loathing and that she relates to the fictional character Bojack Horsemen(that should've been a red flag). But what turns me off from people like her is when it comes time to get supply or sympathy, she has no problem reflecting and pointing out her short comings. But when it was brought up as a critique on her behavior and how it negatively effects her friendship with me, I'm a sociopath whose abusing her the way my abusive mother abused me. That obvious flip flopping completely eliminates any sympathy I have for her because I see certain mannerisms are strategic and the failures she experience socially is at her own hand.

I hope she seeks the help she needs though I doubt she will based on what I know about her but hey people can change. She and I are no longer friends and I am for the better for it.

[–]OutsideBandicoot31 point2 points3 points 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]StatusAnywhere80 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No harm no foul. I just feel like people like us who are quick to help and make helpful suggestions, we need to understand that not everyone is receptive of that help.

For example, she would complain about her weight(something we both struggled with at the time) and I would tell her hit the gym cause that's what I do. She'd then give me a million excuses as to why she can't or was anxious to join. Many of those excuses were assumptions that revolved around this self absorbed notion that she, though negatively, is the center of attention. There's that narcissistic defenses you spoke of. If she went to the gym people will judge her, make fun, hit on her and anything else that revolved around her. I'd try to tell her that's not the case most days people are minding their business focusing on themselves. This only resulted in more deflection and defensive defeatist talking points.

Through her I understood how so many men get caught in RP because she shared similar thought process. This is what I mean that no matter how many helpful suggestions, books, nudges towards therapy and so on you push as their friend, these people are not interested in putting in the work. They want you to tell them they're okay as is when they know they're not so they become complacent in their failure. Not the kind of energy I want. Never get too comfortable I always say.

It sounds like a healthy personality that you asserted your boundaries and left her. Also my best wishes with the healing of your childhood trauma.

Thank you for your kind words. It took a lot to refrain from responding back to her last messages. I realized I was relieving the scapegoated child vs Golden child routine with her. With me being the "bad one angry masculine one" and her being "the sweet feminine nice one". Neither these roles were fitting. It's wild how your upbringing effects your relationships even in non-romantic ones. Therapy is the best tool.

[–]Soft-Neat81173 points4 points5 points 5 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

Well, he's a decent looking guy, but short.

How short? I ask because many people think that anything under six feet is too short, when the average male height is around 5'9" (at least in the US).

Even if he is below the average height, lots of short guys still get girlfriends.

He's on welfare, dirty apartment, no money

Ah, here's a problem. While you don't have to be a millionaire to get laid, the vast majority of women don't want broke dudes, and the ones who do probably aren't very high caliber. He needs to solve his money problems.

terrible mental health (I'm pretty sure he's bipolar)

Hmm. That could be an issue. But like with height, guys with mental issues can still succeed in dating if they do something to try and treat their illnesses.

Ive seen him talk to a few women online and he treats them like shit and doesn't understand how.

As a former simp, anyone can talk to hot chicks from behind a screen. Even if you have no desirable qualities or social skills. Has he ever approached a girl in person?

He's currently here in front of me in a manic fit so sorry about that being vague originally. But I'm at my wits end with him, he's such a toxic person that needs help, then he goes to one therapy session and says "he's gotten help"

Sorry to say, but some people can't be helped and from the way you're talking, your friend may just be one of them. He doesn't seem to recognize that he has a problem and is blaming outside forces for his failures in life. Until he realizes that he is the problem and does something about it, his situation won't improve.

Oh and I forgot to add, he is very socially awkward

Of course he is.

[–]TheAceOfSpades1998[S] 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]bitch_not_it4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheAceOfSpades1998[S] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Soft-Neat81170 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheAceOfSpades1998[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheAceOfSpades1998[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheAceOfSpades1998[S] 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]bitch_not_it6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think you should be very mindful that people can't change until they want to change. I think you should weigh the cost of you trying to help him (your mental health, emotional toll, time and effort from the positive/healthy things you could be doing, time taken from other loved ones in your life, etc).. and how much help you're actually able to provide him

Keep in mind, even if your advice was specific and awesome, and you took out a big chunk of time per week, to complete devote and commit to your friend, and your efforts were flawless, in the end, if he doesn't want them, it won't make much a difference. All that happened is it drained you for your time and health.

Keep in mind these kinds of people basically want to be able to sit back and miraculously have an impossible magic bullet solution solve literally every single problem in their lives

[–]TheAceOfSpades1998[S] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]cvntcvntcvnt2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]OutsideBandicoot31 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]bugrilyus-5 points-4 points-3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheAceOfSpades1998[S] 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link