What is causing boys' decline in academia?

off_brand_gobshite · 2020-02-29T12:28:27+00:00

Teacher of ten years. Worked in an all boys' school for over five years, and am now in the co-ed sector. This is a topic of particular interest for me.

When I hear complaints about boys' achievements in schools, I feel a bit burnt out. A good question is "which boys"? The very wealthy boys are doing perfectly fine; boys from cultural groups that prioritise and emphasise tertiary education do perfectly fine; boys from families with entrenched backgrounds in white collar professions with strong reading practices are doing fine. Even saying "western schools" is a challenge: does this affect boys in school jurisdictions with strong OECD/PISA scores like Finland or Iceland to the same degree as it does in the Anglosphere? But I do see which boys are lagging: boys from families without a history of secondary/tertiary participation and boys from economically disadvantaged communities. There's a lot we can be doing to support those groups of learners but it does involve buy-in from male role models who are relevant to these boys; unfortunately, it can be challenging in terms of time and resources to make these connections happen.

I often hear that schooling is somehow not designed for boys to succeed; that somehow, schools are stifling boys' creative outlets, or physical expressiveness. I hear arguments for "learning styles", which were pretty trendy 5-10 years ago. I find it hard to juggle the idea that somehow schooling 30-40 years ago - where corporal punishment was used, obedience and compliance were much more greatly enforced, and students sat silently in rows of 40+ students as adults talked at them - was a halcyon for the kind of students who are described by the same people as needing an outlet for behaviour. But I think some contemporary trends explain this far better than a "feminised" schooling system ever could.

I'd argue that more of all kids are staying in school than 30, 40 or 50 years ago, especially boys. Here in Australia, the Year 12 retention rate is about 88% for girls and 81% for boys; in 1985, this number hovered around the 50% mark for boys and girls, with girls having slightly higher completion rates then too. A lot of boys experiencing educational difficulty now are students who historically wouldn't have completed high school on account of a need for financial independence, or the availability of full-time employment which could be available to them from the age of 15. For many boys who feel stifled in contemporary classrooms, the economy is simply unable to provide the kind of entry-level manual-labour work that their dads and granddads would have had access to which could not only sustain a single-income family, but purchase and pay off a house. Having spent a lot of time teaching traditionally working-class white boys, a lot of them have communicated their frustration to me about a lack of viable employment opportunities, coupled with manual work that increasingly requires a level of textual and technical literacy than they have been supported to develop.

The next factor I've seen is the risk-mitigation factors and rise of technology that have encroached onto playtime and school sports. Physical activity during the school day is a huge part of maintaining cognitive health and attentiveness during class time; when working in the all boys' school, even taking a 2 minute push-up break or lap of the school oval was enough to contend with most of the low-level behaviour and attentiveness issues. Some high profile cases in my state involving students incurring severe or life-ending injuries from contact sports, being swept into storm drains or fights and an increasing degree of litigiousness from parents in order to fund the lifelong caregiving needs that result from such injuries has led to schools removing play/sport equipment, monitoring physical activity and breaktimes more intensely, and enforcing greater penalties for physical contact or perceived bullying. Some of this is necessary from the perspective of a school or department's risk management protocol, but there have anecdotally been flow-on effects on students. New legislation surrounding sun safety and wearing hats has led to fewer students of any sex wanting to play lunchtime sport or get involved in physical activity during breaktime because kids fuckin' hate hats.

Likewise, the advent of technology and gaming has had a hugely intrusive impact on how students are spending their time out of the classroom (and in it). In my own school context (very representative of population in general but academically selective) so many of my male students in the younger high school years are spending upwards of 15-20+ hours a week on gaming, often trying to bring it into the classroom as well. We're just not seeing that degree of gaming and tech use from our girls (though when the ones who are gaming to that degree have it affect their classroom behaviour in the same way, it's usually a HUGE red flag for very severe trauma or caregiver failure); I think for some boys' parents that they feel relieved that their sons have found a "safe" and relatively risk-free hobby that keeps them quiet and out of their hands.

Ultimately, the future of the workforce isn't going to return to the way of the 1950s-70s. Boys and men are going to need strong literacy and communication skills, and as teachers we have a duty to meet their needs with this. I'm always very excited when my male students come back after graduating high school to tell me they're considering teaching or nursing or aged care; I'm just as excited to hear that they get a great trade apprenticeship (which can be very hard to find as fewer and fewer master tradesman are taking on apprentices). The answer isn't weakened standards, or changing the current teaching strategies (which are, for what it's worth, designed to be as inclusive of all learners and to support the needs of students with neurodiversity or learning disabilities - who are, as statistics have it, typically male): it's changing a culture around literacy and valuing soft skills, addressing the rising problems of tech addiction, and ensuring that physical and psychological health is prioritised.

SmashTheKyriarchy · 2020-02-29T13:49:51+00:00

Just to be clear, children in all demographic groups are doing better on international exams than their parents and grand parents. Everyone is on an upward trajectory. It’s just that women are gaining ground more quickly.

boardgaming234 · 2020-03-01T06:12:34+00:00

I was the nerdy guy in school.

Education is something you have to work for. When people told me "gee you're so smart", I was a bit flattered. But when you've been told this more and more as the subjects you learn get more and more advanced, you begin to get angry at this compliment. "You're so smart" is said when someone does not want to acknowledge the hard work you have put into your education. They are saying "oh gee if only I was as smart as you, then school would be easy for me". my question is, even if I am gifted in that department, what makes you think that having what I might have is going to motivate you to try and work for it?

The boys who I knew were struggling were more concerned about sports and their social life than their education. The girls that I knew were struggling were more involved in drama as well. It's typical and cliche, but this is my experience.

I get it. Academia is not for everyone. Maybe you're a wannapreneur and you've watched too much Joe Rogan. But don't come at me with the "you wasting 4 years of your life". I'm not shitting on you because you don't know what a tensor is, why you shitting on me?

As for kids being hyperactive, yeah if your're hyperactive and disruptive then that's a problem. We're not going to accept that here in civil society. I don't care how you do it, you need to get it under control. I've seen it all the time in classrooms. There's that annoying prick who wouldn't shut his mouth for no apparent reason. There's a kid with ADHD. Get them treated.

Bottom line I saw no indication that the school system was against me. Sure some teachers were openly feminist. So? They can believe whatever they want to believe. Yes, sometimes these teachers would want a 1 on 1 with me when they found out what I believed. I basically told them that I do not give a shit, and that I don't have to answer for anything. I believe what I believe, because I believe what I believe, and there is no reason to have a conflict over that.

radfembutstopbanning · 2020-03-01T05:44:55+00:00

More boys are diagnosed* with mental disabilities and neurological disorders, because of the past researchers from the 1900s often refusing to include females in their tests, thus creating a criteria of symptoms that are more present in males. So that’s off the table.

I_like_the_word_MUFF · 2020-02-29T13:03:14+00:00

If men were so smart, why did they end up abandoning academia if it was so important to their son's success?

Seriously. If it's because of women, why not start a men's rights drive to install more male teachers throughout the education system.

I mean there's a guy at the bottom of this comment thread that thinks education is unimportant, but you think it's women. Then go be a teacher and do something for your fellow men instead of hand wringing on the internet. It can't be that hard, I mean women do it and your a guy. Should be easy. You're smarter and more skilled than any female, right?

Go on... I hear it's a great career.

2020-03-08T06:44:56+00:00

Feel like a part of that could be that younger boys tend to have alot more energy and alot of schools will take away recess and pe to punish the entire clas for a single student misbehaving. Young girls can deal with it well enough but young boys need to release it as they get it out somehow. Ik some stated were trying to pass laws making recess mandatory but still teachers wont do it because by then they're old and forget kids are wildly excitable.

That and these days parents will can any mild step out of line autism or something and medicate their kids to hell n back, and that ain't good considering how much development and growing happens before 25.

2020-03-08T22:06:54+00:00

It's ironic on how these RP groups cry about men getting the short end of the stick in academia, representation in some industries (education, nursing, etc.), and coming forward as victims of abuse, but what have they done to help these men? Absolutely nothing. There's little to no empowerment nor lifting each other up whatsoever. It's a circlejerk of RP men bringing down fresh meat to their level to hate on not only women, but themselves in the process. The fact that there are men who get called simps, cucks, soyboys, pussies, white knights, and beta males because they stand with women and reject the red pill is absolutely sickening. If these groups really cared about men, why do they waste their time bringing others down and creating toxic men out of those who have been hurt, neglected, rejected, and abused? I'm a woman and also an ex-redpiller myself, and it hurts to see these men get told lies and toxic ideology like this. It's giving them false hope and more bitterness.

retiredattwentyone · 2020-02-29T13:30:11+00:00

A lot of the men I know who didn't go to university went into a trade, and now make very good money. Here I got a useless history degree, and am still in debt years after graduating.

Baghdadincoming · 2020-03-08T14:03:16+00:00

Female centric learning methods being employed. Also, bias at times. This shouldn't be surprising being that in many areas teachers are primarily female. Primary schools for example, where men are seen as potentially more dangerous. I've heard plenty of stories from male teachers who end up quite scared to show any sort of compassion towards students for fear of being fired. This doesn't occur to the same degree with female teachers. They are viewed by society as safer.

2020-03-09T11:20:14+00:00

It doesn’t matter if they mean to disadvantage boys or not. It’s a problem and needs fixing.

IHAVETHEHIGHGROUND_3 · 2020-03-11T15:55:42+00:00

Money, why go into debt for shit pay or even no pay

Simp_Gulag · 2020-04-13T17:57:21+00:00

I saw a lot of “skip college and learn a trade/become self employed.” Seems like a good idea.

Johnnyjonno · 2020-08-16T07:40:00+00:00

I disagree that boys are declining in the academia. Men in general do very well when it comes to education. Many of them also get good grades. This has nothing to do with feminism

username_6916 · 2020-03-06T10:15:06+00:00

Even if this was the case, redpillers offer literally no solutions.

I'm not exactly a redpiller, but I can list several things...

Schools shouldn't be in the business of trying to cajole and force parents into drugging boys into submission. As a policy, I don't think it's a teacher's place to tell a parent to "say this than and the other to a doctor so that your child can be put on ADHD drugs which may have serious consequences for them down the road" and as such I think that this is something that should be prohibited by policy. More broadly, if we're disproportionately shuffling boys off to special-ed gulags to the extent we are, maybe our definition of 'learning disability' is overly broad and has to do with a broader failure in the teacher's behavior, not the student's.

Schools need to teach reading and communication outside of literature and literary analysis. While I'm not entirely sure how gendered this is, I suspect boys are a bit less interested in analyzing literary themes in fiction than girls are. I know I was. This shouldn't cost someone their opportunity to become an effective written communicator.

Schools shouldn't teach young men that their masculinity is 'toxic'. They shouldn't try to squelch their competitive nature. Colleges shouldn't be replaying the feminist message of how all men are potential rapists and all romantic interest is sexual harassment in their freshmen orientation.

Universities shouldn't "believe women" when it comes to allegations of sexual misconduct. While such allegations should always be taken seriously and should have serious consequences if found to be true, the burden of proof must remain squarely on the accuser. The accused must have the right to cross-examine their accuser. There must be protections of due process.

IceHistory0 · 2020-02-29T11:52:12+00:00

Academia is a joke anyway. Do you really think people learn anything serious in school? I'm a software engineer and business owner and I can tell you straight up that degrees mean very little to me and other employers outside of heavy regulated fields like healthcare

rockstarsheep · 2020-02-29T11:02:10+00:00

Childhood and early adulthood, has always been tumultuous. It’s a time of learning and exploration. If you consider that the human brain, only really settles at around 20, and then fully matured at 25; there’s a great deal of growing and change that happens. We take a very long time to mature. That’s scientific fact.

Now there’s been a huge effort to get more women in to higher education, for quite some time. That’s been a matter of social policy. And if that’s been to provide equal opportunities; that’s a good thing. If it’s been to suppress and oppress; for the sake of settling a score, or attempting to dominate; then that’s not good. It is going to cause a backlash. Nothing exists without a reason; things don’t happen in a vacuum. There will be some legitimate reason, however this can be hijacked and corralled in different directions, to fit certain agendas or ideologies. Whatever they may be.

Now we live in a time, that is increasingly dominated by disproportionate imbalances of power and influence, led by minorities, under the guise of justice. In itself, there is nothing wrong with that. Justice in the form of equality of opportunity, irrespective of race or gender, is a fine aspiration. Unfortunately, this can also be abused or misused by malevolent minority forces. It’s an old story. We need checks and balances, to throttle back, when things go too far. Unfortunately, humanity doesn’t seem to learn, until things do go too far. People start to resist.

In terms of education; it’s always evolving. The purpose of most education systems, is to provide parts for the machine of the economy. So, most schools are factories. You want compliance, at the end of the day. You allow for certain exceptions to fall outside these confines. Normally, these are the gifted or the rich. So, men and women alike, are going to find themselves going through these processes.

If the mood now favours the priority of females, over males, then you will see this reflected in the resulting statistics. More females, than males are indeed gaining more educational qualifications. However these are not equally distributed across all fields of study. It would appear that there are preferences, between the genders. This also means differences in economic impact, and social influence. All jobs are not valued equally.

I know this is quite vanilla and bland, but it’s necessary to set a baseline.

So, what we really have is a confusion, about what it means to be a male, and perhaps even a female. The social contract has been changing. More freedom, and less responsibility. This is creating a huge amount of problems. Imbalance. The types of sorts of relationships, that people seem to be having, are changing. It would seem that expectations are so hyper inflated, that no one seems to find a happy or workable medium. Instead of harmony, there is discord, anger and competition. The irresponsible individual is now venerated as a modern bohemian. There are no consequences, in the plight to self-express. Which is really going against the grain of human nature. That however, now, is called a construct. This has found itself in some very strange ways; the symptoms, you have described.

So, I have a question for you ... what do you think the causes are? Beyond the obvious. What social forces are in motion? What narrative is driving things forward?

You can also see that there has been a stark rise in the “diagnosis” of new “conditions,” that for millions of years, were just considered to be a normal part of human life. Somehow, this has become a problem. This “problem,” has taken us out of the dark ignorance of our animal heritage, in to today. And that applies to both sexes. That’s not to justify the suppression of anyone.

And more specifically to your question, it’s not a mystery, that a lot of boys who grow up without positive role models, don’t generally do very well.

Deadbeat parents are both male and female. Boys need men to tell them how to be men, but without good men to do this: you have a lot of men in age, but boys in maturity - not providing leadership. You need to be firm with little boys, to keep them in line. Get them to toughen up, and take the strain of life. Steel themselves for the challenges that will come. Life is hard. And a good life, is even harder. Particularly without discipline and focus.

And you’re right; men need to be teaching boys. Women cannot be expected to do all the early education on their own. They are going to do what they know best. You cannot blame them. It’s natural.

This is a big long winded. It’s a complex problem. An important one to discuss.

Title	What is causing boys' decline in academia?
Author	Baghdadincoming
Upvotes	30
Comments	35
Date	February 29, 2020 8:46 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/fb9u4f/what_is_causing_boys_decline_in_academia/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/what-is-causing-boys-decline-in-academia.341186 https://theredarchive.com/post/341186

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