Misandry in queer communities

LeonDeCool · 2020-07-22T03:25:35+00:00

I saw some of those posts as well. Just wanted to add some additional perspective of what I've seen within trans circles as well. These are generalisations of course, and thankfully they tend to diminish greatly once you leave the internet, but they persist nonetheless. I personally believe that misandry is a large contributor to the lack of visibility of trans men. As often as trans men have to deal with being treated as women, the man label still makes the triumphs and struggles of trans men both confusing to misandrist feminism and simultaneously easy to ignore, much in the same way that mens concerns in general are ignored in favor of women's.

Many trans men also find it difficult at times to speak up inside of and outside the queer and trans communities, for fear or being shouted down for speaking over queer and/or trans women. The fact that many transmen were once treated as female and may themselves have held misandrist views (as I did) can make it even harder to make peace with the need to be heard alongside women rather than after or not at all.

I knew I was a gay man before I had finished 2nd grade, but the realisation frightened me and chased me into some severely harmful, all men are trash type groups, not because I truly believed that, but because I hoped that they of all people might be able to beat the man out of me. I hated and was afraid of being a normal, average, masculine guy, as are many of my trans brothers.

The two main subs for trans men are even more or less split into trans guys that would support this type of sub, and trans guys who would look at MensLib and cry incel. I find this is reflected IRL in the community as well. It makes it pretty tough to organise or make ourselves known as a group when those of us who are out and loudest tend to skew young and hyper femme while the older, more masculine guys go stealth or avoid the community due to lack of support or outright misandry.

HogurDuDesert · 2020-07-22T07:30:17+00:00

Saw the original posts and as transman agreed with 95% of what was said. I feel as well for our cis-brothers even more, because at least, I have "trans points" which makesme more acceptable.

But I've definitively felt this increasing unsaid hierarchy over the years in self proclaimed queer and inclusive communities where: non-binary looking > binary looking, fem > masc, artsy > non-artsy, trans> cis. Ensue events/venues/communities supposedly inclusive but which at best makes trans/cis-queer/allied men feel unwelcomed at worse explicitly ban the cis-men while accepting the trans-men which is terribly disrespecful of trans-men's identities as it implies they are women-adjacent/men-light.

I'm even as a trans-man, but who's cis-looking and middle class looking, I've personally felt less and less accepted because of these two features until I boast out LGBT activism CV. And even then it can be felt in conversations how my opinions are not taken seriously or with a dash of disdain (for a lack of better word) just because I'm perceived as male and hence my comments are based on my privileged male background. In other words, I'm really not surprised gay men are turning more and more conservative and bi men just end up not joining the queer community. It is the same mechanisms by the which general IDpol is driving working class men to vote far right by excluding them from the discussion.

Edit: wording in last paragraph

Leinadro · 2020-07-22T14:14:46+00:00

I have to say I've noticed attitudes along this line before. It's almost like such progressive communities think that by including gay men and transgender men to a limited extent they can redefine masculinity to their own tastes, cisgender and hetero men be damned.

MILFBucket · 2020-07-23T16:01:46+00:00

Something important worth noting right away is that men =/= masculinity. Hence, decrying masculinity is not misandry.

On a related note, I'd be cognizant of the direction the world is rapidly headed toward and start considering which aspects of masculinity, if any, may be approaching obsolescence.

Infantry warfare has been drifting away from armed combat in favor of remote warfare, the service sector has been dominating the labor market share, and the elephant in the room that keeps growing and growing as technology keeps wiping out more and more threats to our survival happens to be the threat posed by our own fellow citizens, particularly the threat of violence posed by men.

Given such developments, as well as others, it may be best for us to think about reformulating the parameters of masculinity around a model of success in this imminent paradigm.

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