On hyper-agency and how it hurts men

Blauwpetje · 2020-09-12T16:01:53+00:00

Not convinced. When a feminist says 'You misunderstood us, it is not individual men, it's patriarchy' she can virtually agree with the list mentioned.

While the words 'creeps' and 'sexualization' are often used to shame male sexuality as such, which IMHO is a much bigger issue. 'Sex devalues women' is a vague idea: does it mean men devalue women by wanting sex, or women who are openly sexual devalue themselves in the eyes of the world?

So the next step will be 'forget men's advocates, feminism will repair this', even though we all know it won't.

Blauwpetje · 2020-09-12T16:16:53+00:00

Ozy's law - yes, that was from the what about teh menz era. Misandry as a side-effect or unexpected consequence of misogyny. So the correct way to advocate for men turns out to be to advocate for women. Men should learn put aside what they believe to be their own issues, educate themselves on feminism, and serve the interests of women.

And once feminism is achieved, those silly impatient men will find that their issues have been solved too. This might take years or decades or multiple lifetimes, but if you're a big boy you should be able to put aside your own interests for women.

So the result is to reinforce the hyperagency: we're not saying that men don't have issues, but they've got to wait their turn and make themselves available to serve women's needs, and if they're real men that's what they'll do.

Hyperagency usually isn't defended explicitly. If you put somebody on the spot they'll say of course men have issues and vulnerabilities, that's what we feminists have been saying all along, but here and now is never the right place and time to deal with them.

Whether to walk on eggshells around somebody's vulnerability or to play the candid friend who's only telling you the truth for your own good, this is a judgement call and something reasonable people can disagree on. But in 50-50 situations, the kinds of stories you read on "am I the asshole", people feel on much safer ground playing the candid friend with the man and walking on eggshells around the woman.

There's always something the guy could have done better, and maybe you're just the person to tell him. Going through the group therapy/AA checklist for brutal frankness: does it need to be said? Yes! Does it need to be said now? Absolutely! Does it need to be said by me? It's a difficult job, but somebody's got to do it.

On the other hand if you play the candid friend with a woman she might cry and then you'll be the bad guy. Was there something the woman did wrong, and would brutally frank advice from a candid friend be helpful? Now is not the time. Maybe when hell freezes over these people will tell a woman she's in the wrong and needs to shape up.

leftwingrightwingall · 2020-09-12T20:16:12+00:00

OneY another male feminist space.

Forgetaboutthelonely · 2020-09-12T14:38:27+00:00

I was searching for a good definition of hyperagency. And I found this excellent post.

a-man-from-earth · 2020-09-13T00:33:43+00:00

I think the take-away here is that the system is at fault and this often results in problems for both men and women, but in ways that mirror each other.

We need to try to raise awareness of this, and try to change societal expectations and values. This is a slow process.

On hyper-agency and how it hurts men

Crosspost "On hyper-agency and how it hurts us men" from /r/OneY:

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