purebredginger_· Non-binary

- Treating women as sex objects

Sexism against women.

- "Lad Culture" and "Locker Room Talk"

Sexism against women.

- Resorting to violence to resolve differences.

A shitty personality trait.

- Using "boys will be boys" as an excuse for bad behavior.

Sexism against men. (Implying that they "can't help being a shitty person" because they're male.)

- Feeling like it's not ok to talk about your emotions.

Sexism against men.

- Homophobia and fragility when males don't display "typically masculine" traits.

Sexism against men. Is it ever considered "toxic femininity" when a woman says that women have to be feminine?

- Domestic Violence

A crime.

Blaming it all on toxic masculinity makes men feel like you're blaming all these bad traits on the fact that they're male, it doesn't achieve anything and pushes countless men away from the progressive movement.

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I feel like you don't know what sexism is. Sexism isn't some super broad term that you can loosely attribute to anything resembling "bad for insert sex here".

I feel like you would label men ranking women on a 1-10 scale based off appearance as sexism too? That's just shitty/shallow behaviour, not sexism.

I also find it really funny that you somehow label homophobia as sexism. To answer your 'justification' on that point: yes, like could you imagine a female wearing jeans and a hoodie and then another female comes and says "eww wtf, why aren't you wearing a dress. Also, why are you dirt biking? Go do some ballet or learn to cook something instead wtf." That sort of 'fragility' in either direction is a perpetuation of traditional societal gender-norms, not sexism.

Just because a select few of those points can be considered sexism, that doesn't mean you can label everything as sexism and throw away the term "toxic masculinity". Think of it like this: "cats, dogs, elephants, hamsters, parrots". What does that list have in common? They are all animals. Sure, all but one of them can be put under the category of 'having fur', or all but one of them can be put under the category of 'mammals', or all but one of them can generally be put under the category of 'pets', etcetera. But all that doesn't mean that it's wrong to use the term 'animal' to describe it. Yes, treating women as sex objects is sexism; yes, domestic violence is a crime; yes, violence to resolve disputes is a bad personality trait. You're missing the point: all of that falls under toxic masculinity.

Sexism is (from first paragraph off wikipedia) "prejudice or discrimination based on one's sex or gender. Sexism can affect anyone, but it primarily affects women and girls. It has been linked to stereotypes and gender roles, and may include the belief that one sex or gender is intrinsically superior to another." You can't say toxic masculinity is JUST sexism or JUST a bad personality because like you said so yourself: there's a different 'explanation' for each point of toxic masculinity. Some parts of toxic masculinity are based on sexism, some parts are based on personality traits, and some parts are based on criminal actions. You can't use the argument that: 'A implies B' therefore 'B implies A'. Nor can you use the fallacious argument that: 'S is a subset of T' therefore 'T implies S' (S being sexism and T being toxic masculinity); you can see that's bullshit by the classic example: "some Cats are Pets, therefore all Pets are Cats".

Blaming it all on toxic masculinity makes men feel like you're blaming all these bad traits on the fact that they're male

But all these negative things are what toxic masculinity is. It's not an attack on all males, it's a criticism on males that act like this. You're falling into the right-wing propaganda that an attack on a specific subset of people is an attack on all those people. Similarly to how "christian evangelicals are toxic" gets construed to "all christians are toxic".

12

purebredginger_ Non-binary

I also find it really funny that you somehow label homophobia as sexism.

Telling women not to be masculine is sexism. Telling men not to be feminine is sexism. I'm gay, and fem (Ik the flair says nb, I'm amab any pronouns but I prefer they/them online since nobody uses it irl) I don't view it as homophobia. Not all homosexual men are feminine you know? That's literally a stereotype? Idk whether to be offended by that or not lol.

You can't say toxic masculinity is JUST sexism

I didn't say that? I said that traits that people classify as "toxic masculinity" don't typically have anything to do with masculinity. The only one that has anything to do with masculinity or femininity is telling people to conform with gender roles. Which has been nearly universally considered sexism when done against women for at least the last twenty years. I'm just saying that the opposite is also sexism.

This isn't me saying that feminism has gone too far, I'm saying it hasn't gone far enough. All the things that are necessary for women's liberation have counterparts that are necessary for men's liberation. You can say that patriarchy caused all men's problems and you're not wrong, but capitalism is a more apt description. Gender roles hurt everybody but the rich, that's why I support gender liberation instead of specifically activism for a single gender.