I've been following various blogs in the manosphere for a while now. While I have recently leaned more and more toward mgtow ideals, I still hold this adorable sentiment that the 3 primary schools of mra pua and mgtow could eventually learn to disagree while simultaneously holding one another in higher esteem since they are all at the very least unplugged men so to speak. What do you guys think?
As far as I can tell, these are basically the barriers stopping the different segments from getting along:
(MRA) - believes PUAs give the mrm a bad name due to outsiders conflating the two and because they promote deceitful and manipulative behavior against women in order to get laid. Puas shame men who aren't getting laid and push for narrow standards of masculinity. Mrm is increasingly egalitarian and isn't about alienating or treating women badly
- believes MGTOW have a fundamentally negative view of women as being exploitive and adversarial towards men by nature. Mras are big on distancing themselves from what could be perceived as misogyny and also welcome women's aid and voice, since they are pushing more for egalitarianism than for pure pro male ideals
(PUA) - view the Mras shedding light on male issues as playing victim. Since men are strong and get shit done they should never need to appeal to govt or society for help with male issues. Mras show weakness by complaining and arguing the merits of caring for men. They should just be more masculine and take charge...( that's how it seems anyway. Apologies pua are the ones I least identify with so it's hard to sum up what they actually are getting at)
-view MGTOW as low smv males who gnash their teeth over their inability to get laid. Puas view the very attempt at rejecting women and the rules of the sexual marketplace to be a futile endeavor. They see getting laid and using women as the best counter to an increasingly misandrist society. They see mgtow as having given up, given in, and resigning to porn and video games. To them this is pathetic
(MGTOW ) -considers PUAS to be essentially trapped in gynocentric behavior, molding themselves around women's base urges and taking undue risks in order to bed women and emulate alpha behavior. They push a warped and self-destructive idea of masculinity while appealing to semi traditionalist notions of men being men and women being women. They insist that gratifying their instinctual drives is the finest endeavor for a man
- consider MRAs to be fighting a fruitless losing battle against an unsympathetic worldwide view of mens issues. Also they attempt to play politics and gain favor with masses which requires them to dilute their message and not be offensive to women/tradcons. In the end they are neither taken seriously nor listened to
So that's my take on what the different groups think of eachother. Do you guys think we could ever focus on benifiting males and looking out for eachother inspite of our differing views?
[–]machine_language10 points11 points12 points (2 children) | Copy Link
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Your comment somewhat articulated what I was trying to say. Not that I wouldn't like for the MRM to succeed, but if you never get married and you avoid women for the most part, you don't really need the MRM. Of course, there's still other things it could theoretically accomplish (like the draft) but that stuff is never going to happen.
[–]thrownaway_MGTOW2 points3 points4 points (6 children) | Copy Link
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Its pretty simple. The less you can rely on a family unit, the more you have to rely on the government. Another reply here is part of what you're saying. Also another thought is that the MRM really doesn't help men in any meaningful way. They don't want MGTOW associated with the MRM (just go your own way, don't talk about it) even though its one of the most solid and concrete ways for men to help themselves. Why fight and struggle for rights, when a lot of the so called "rights" have to do with relationships, marriage, and kids anyway? And even if every law was completely reformed and we when back to the most extreme form of men's rights that has existed (men literally owning their wife and kids) a lot of MGTOW still wouldn't go back. The MRM definitely can't have that. What I think it comes down to is the MRM is about getting men enough power back that it will make being a work horse worth it enough to keep them marrying.
[–]thrownaway_MGTOW1 point2 points3 points (4 children) | Copy Link
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On the second point, I don't mean all of the MRM. I should have clarified. I mean the women against feminism (girlwriteswhat) and a lot of the white knights joining the movement. I think you're right, most of it is a distraction tactic. On the first point, I absolutely agree (damn no room to grow).
[–]thrownaway_MGTOW1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
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I would say as far as MGTOW goes, this is the absolute best time. Relatively small labour required (no need to toil in a field all day), plenty of entertainment, if you want to pursue it casual sex is abundant, incredibly easy access to information through the internet.
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Dammit, I'm plugging my subreddit: /r/RedPillMetal.
I'm all about agreeing to disagree and talking about Red Pill, MGTOW, PUA, and a dash of MRA in the same sub. And if you want to relate it all to heavy metal, check out the RedPillMetal sub.
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More and more, I'm starting to agree. People don't want to be free. They like the security and comfort. I don't even blame them. Facing reality is incredibly depressing and draining. Stardusk has a great video on post redpill apathy. MGTOW and Libertarianism go hand in hand in that sense. You start to realize how utterly futile fighting is. You just decide to live your life for you. Then there's the feeling of, "now what?" All your old motivation is gone. Why slave away if you don't need to?
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The reason MRAs have to attack is because they have to worry about they're image. It really shows just how hopeless the whole movement is. If there's even a sliver of rejecting women, the movement will fail. It's incredibly gynocentric. They claim to be fighting, but they're really supplicating. They're begging for rights. They can't go too far or women and white knights will bat them down (look at how little progress they've made and see how much backlash and hate they get).
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