Support for men

ZulutheZebra · 2023-04-12T23:10:28+00:00

I one hundred percent agree that the media and social media slant is sexist as hell against men. With that being said, you need to turn the tables when she starts quoting articles coming from her point of view. “So your idea of how to solve the problems we are having is to quote opinion pieces at me? What’s actually bothering you.”

The catch though is that you need to talk to her about the underlying issue that’s causing her to use these articles to gang up on you. What I have seen in a lot of cases is women say “He never listens to me!” which is technically true, but that’s because they never ask why the guy has stopped listening. Many times it’s because the guy feels like he never gets heard and it’s become a one way street of her making a list of demands rather than them exchanging requests and ideas. This begins a toxic cycle of him ignoring her because he’s tired of the nagging, while her nagging gets even worse as she tries to force him to listen to her. Both parties feel put upon and it’s a real quick way for things to devolve. Does any of that sound familiar or is your situation fairly different?

stillcantshoot · 2023-04-12T23:38:55+00:00

I brought this up to my wife when Twitch killed himself. She couldn't believe it so I told her to Google anything that had to do with supporting mens mental health. She was blown away with the lack of content. It really opened her eyes to the situation.

lmea14 · 2023-04-13T00:26:35+00:00

Sounds like your wife has a chip on her shoulder and harbors a grudge against the opposite sex. That’s not too uncommon, the dating game can build resentment between the sexes.

Unlike casual misogyny though, casual misandry, aka stiletto sexism, is widely supported. And she’s using that to gaslight you. Essentially what she’s doing is making accusatory statements (more detail would be interesting) and then following up with a “poor fragile men” approach.

What accusations is she making?

Sydnaktik · 2023-04-13T02:29:01+00:00

My wife lately has started multiple fights by making very accusatory statements towards me. I defend myself and she says, "I'm not accusing you, I'm just trying to discuss the issue."

That sounds scary as hell to me. I don't know what advice to give. I try to make sure things can't even get to this point with my partner. I don't know how I would handle things if it got that far.

You've been quite vague about the specific issues she raises. But here's a few of techniques:

The moral high ground is the best defense. Just spend time acquiring a good understanding of the effect of your own behavior in the relationship and how it affects her. Make sure to minimize your own wrongdoing.
Humans will humans, no one is perfect, what's worse some problematic behaviors don't go away no matter how hard you try. This applies to you and this applies to her as well. The fact that you can't fix these issues doesn't mean you don't care about the other person. So it's best if you both learn to accept that some problems will just persist for a very long time. But both should still put consistent effort to minimize the impact of these problems.
Engage her empathy towards you. Talk about how you feel about things. You can even mention how you've looked into how to better listen to women and when you tried to look into resources that could teach her how to better listen to you you couldn't find anything so you understand that it might be more difficult for her to understand how you feel but it's still very important that she tries and that she learns.

But the problem is, I think that superficial understanding of these points isn't enough. You might need to understand them thoroughly and have them internalized so you can use them effectively in a conversation with her.

I don't know how effective all this advice is. You seem to have a bit more of what I'd maybe call a "social" relationship (or at least from your wife's side) where you judge your behavior based on social expectations instead of based on private agreements between you two.

Another note on the empathy thing. The stereotype is that women have a lot more empathy than men, I don't know how true that is, but I do know that I struggle more with empathy than most women. But I've also noticed that a lot of mainstreamish media has a misandrist technique to turn women's empathy against men and it goes like this:

Present dramatic cases of women suffering to a woman
Strengthen that woman's empathy towards women in general
Connect the suffering from 1. to the woman herself to create an empathy loop.
Now the woman's empathy is reserved only for herself

Add to that, they present men as the source of women's suffering to eliminate empathy for men and turn it into contempt and hate.

That's why it's so important that you make sure that your wife remains capable of empathy towards you.

All of what I said is very speculative, buyer beware.

Make-TFT-Fun-Again · 2023-04-13T10:06:05+00:00

Defending yourself against women doesn’t work. If she is bothered by something emotionally you could have a foolproof defense but it will still be your fault.

Is it fair? No, but as you said anti-male bias is through the roof, so you’re up against a lot of indoctrination.

Try this next time: “So you’re saying you want to feel more X” it shows you’re listening and allows you to reframe the issue to what she wants to feel, not what you’re doing wrong.

knight_call1986 · 2023-04-13T12:11:13+00:00

Sadly the amount of support for men is very low and when people try to shine a light on those issues, they are called women haters or something else nasty. All we can do is continue moving forward and supporting each other.

Honestly I was with someone like this. She is shit testing you and sounds like she harbors some resentment towards men. Honestly just ask her what the point of these conversations are because it seems like she just wants to pick a fight. Dealing with someone like that just requires you to stand your ground and set some boundaries. Let her know if there is no point to what she is about to tell you then you don't want to hear it. It may hurt her feelings, but sometimes the truth hurts. Better to have your sanity that to deal with your wife trying to passive aggressively start a fight.

Xfanboi · 2023-04-13T11:26:46+00:00

You gotta unbrainwash her. Show her what you just told us ab how there are 0 results for how men should be treated. If her hubris doesn’t blind her then I believe she will start to understand. Try not to get mad when you explain it too. Considering women mostly live in an emotional based world, appeal to that. Let her know how this is making you feel and how you would like her to act instead. Ask her why she makes those statements and get to the root of it. You got this bro, stay strong and stay hard 💪

onlinethrowaway2020 · 2023-04-13T00:14:59+00:00

Hmm there are lots of men's support or good treatment content on social media. For example, Emily King & Sarah Dawn Moore on YT.

AlissonHarlan · 2023-04-13T07:14:17+00:00

I would be interested to read such content. OP how do you think women should speak to you, as a man?

squintobean · 2023-04-13T20:52:39+00:00

Along this line, the thing that irritates me the most is that all my previous girlfriends would want me to share my feelings, open up, discuss what’s bother me.

So okay, I’ll try that.

Then, instead of being heard, getting sympathy, advice, or even a shred of understanding, I’m told that I complain too much or my gripes about anything; even if it has nothing to do with them, bums them out.

So now I have to console you about how you reacted to my feelings on something.

What’s the point?! Better to just keep my mouth shut.

Women wonder why men don’t share their feelings. Because when we do, we get dismissed or have to prioritize their feelings about our feelings.

Yozora1337 · 2023-04-14T13:15:13+00:00

That is why you don't get married. Don't ever accept that kind of behavior, set your foot down.

benscrolling · 2023-04-14T23:25:07+00:00

This is a delicate situation for a man. It can be helpful to understand the social foundation for this kind of conflict. It sounds like your wife has bought into the narrative that women are superior communicators. There are certainly men that struggle to express themselves well, but there are also plenty of women who have their own communication issues.

The problem is that because you are the social minority, the group for whom the burden of behavior is larger, you will have to not only be an effective communicator, but an exceptional one.

Some important communication tips as a man:

Use short answers. Women generally consider it more masculine to keep your answers short. Try to use "yes" or "no" by themselves. This not only makes you seem decisive, but also keeps you in control of the situation. She cannot put you on the defensive if you keep your answers as concise as possible.
Take time to think. This also lets her know this conversation is within your control. Some women find this frustrating and will use any pause as a window to throw more accusations. You can simply wait until she's finished and respond with, "Are you finished?" And then ask her what she'd like you to specifically address first.
Keep conversations linear. Like I mentioned above, you want to address one thing at a time. A common conversational tactic is to overwhelm you with myriad accusations or criticisms. Keep the focus on one thing at a time. If she changes the subject, just ask, "Would you like to finish discussing __?"
Stay calm. Becoming upset makes her feel like you are guilty and she is justified.
Ask questions. I gave some examples above. But most importantly you will not be successful by trying to fight back. If she accuses you of something, you can say, "Interesting. What specific events led you to this conclusion?" Then you can address what's actually going on rather than just her negative energy about things.
Be open. You should always be ready to receive criticism, even if it isn't presented well, because you are not perfect and this may be a learning opportunity for you. Finding out you're wrong can make you a better person. Admitting it and apologizing can make better relationships.
Be firm. You may not be wrong. You may find after much questioning that she really has nothing, she is just projecting negativity towards you. She may insist you apologize, send you articles, suggest therapy, or otherwise try to make it your problem. You must handle this gracefully but also make your position clear. "I'm sorry, but you haven't really given me anything actionable. If you have a clear and legitimate issue to discuss, I'm open to that. If not, I don't think this kind of approach has a positive effect on our relationship."
Be supportive. Odds are if she's accusing you of things that aren't your issues, it means she has issues she doesn't know how to deal with. You can say things like, "It sounds like you're struggling to feel secure in our relationship. What could help you process those feelings in a more positive way?" Or "It seems like you're telling me you feel unsatisfied. Is there some way we can work on that together?"

Lastly I'd like to note that sometimes women project negativity into their relationships because they feel bad about themselves, they are consuming too much negativity on social media, or because they are going through something that they may not be aware of or up front about. Because self-awareness is a huge part of effective communication, and as I mentioned, women are not always the great communicators society pretends they are.

Do your best. Good luck to you.

Title	Support for men
Author	Azthioth
Upvotes	37
Comments	17
Date	April 12, 2023 10:34 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MenSupportMen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensupportmen/comments/12k22st/support_for_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MenSupportMen/support-for-men.1214037 https://theredarchive.com/post/1214037

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