It's also the case that even if suicidal tendency rates are similar, clearly more women experiencing that end up feeling that there is a way out, perhaps because it's more well-represented in the media and society at large. Men feel like there is no help available to them.
To discuss that takes literally nothing away from the point being made, if anything strengthens it. But this person, like many, seems to think that it's some kind of trump card they can pull out any time someone discusses male suicide.
Exactly. I've seen justifications that women don't want to leave a mess whereas men choose more lethal means. In other words, women are angels and men are violent. Such is the world that people don't even realise how blatantly sexist this all is, especially given that they find themselves feeling the need to talk about women feeling suicidal on threads about men literally committing suicide. It beggars belief.
When women want to talk about being more prone to assault, or various other things, do you ask them why everything is a competition/conspiracy? Do you accuse them of attacking men who have been assaulted?
See, to some of us, men committing suicide is more than just an interesting question. Some of us see the stats, or have loved ones who have suffered, and want a gendered solution, because the problem is clearly gendered. And no, categorising all of men's problems as "toxic masculinity" before proceeding to do absolutely nothing about it on a political level is not a solution.
You're clearly very mad about the fact that people might want to talk about men committing suicide at 4x the rate women do. Maybe you should think about why that is.
I think that you would find the documentary "The Red Pill" very interesting. The documenter explicitly spouts the kind of rhetoric you are now before changing her mind along the journey she takes.
Where did I glorify suicide? All I said was I think the reason we see the gap is that women feel there is a way out, ie. feel supported, whereas men don't. I also said that I've seen some argue that women don't want to leave a mess, and I think that's a sexist assumption, that women are selfless even in suicide but men don't care. Accusing me of glorifying suicide in these circumstances is - wait for it - strawmanning.
Now, maybe you're right that some of the people in this comment thread are saying things which could be interpreted as glorifying suicide, because they say that women are more likely to take pills as a cry for help. Personally, I think that you're showing a lack of understanding, they could equally be saying that men would do the same thing, they wish men had that option, but nobody would listen to their cry for help. Perhaps you could ask them what they mean by that, and whether they intend to glorify suicide, rather than making that assumption because their comment isn't crystal clear.
Everything in my previous comment applies. You don't understand the movement, or what brought people here. Watch something that you don't automatically agree with. Try to sympathise.
This isn't the hate that you think it is, a lot of people here just care about men's suicide and don't think that it is getting enough attention. You may think differently, and that's fine, but not everyone has to agree with you - in fact, this sub won't even ban you for stating it, unlike some other subs which would have removed you and your comment in a heartbeat. If you want to bring studies and change our minds, fine, it might even make some of us feel better, but expecting us to litter the comments with studies in every single thread rather than being allowed to just discuss our experiences is unfair - you wouldn't expect that of feminism or TwoX. Tbh, if you were actually willing to listen, we wouldn't have to do that because you'd go looking for it yourself.
Now, you can reply what you want, but if you do continue to project on to me that I'm mad for asking you to sympathise, then I'll be done replying to you. I hope that you calm down and at least watch The Red Pill, it's a good documentary.
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It's also the case that even if suicidal tendency rates are similar, clearly more women experiencing that end up feeling that there is a way out, perhaps because it's more well-represented in the media and society at large. Men feel like there is no help available to them.
To discuss that takes literally nothing away from the point being made, if anything strengthens it. But this person, like many, seems to think that it's some kind of trump card they can pull out any time someone discusses male suicide.
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Exactly. I've seen justifications that women don't want to leave a mess whereas men choose more lethal means. In other words, women are angels and men are violent. Such is the world that people don't even realise how blatantly sexist this all is, especially given that they find themselves feeling the need to talk about women feeling suicidal on threads about men literally committing suicide. It beggars belief.
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When women want to talk about being more prone to assault, or various other things, do you ask them why everything is a competition/conspiracy? Do you accuse them of attacking men who have been assaulted?
See, to some of us, men committing suicide is more than just an interesting question. Some of us see the stats, or have loved ones who have suffered, and want a gendered solution, because the problem is clearly gendered. And no, categorising all of men's problems as "toxic masculinity" before proceeding to do absolutely nothing about it on a political level is not a solution.
You're clearly very mad about the fact that people might want to talk about men committing suicide at 4x the rate women do. Maybe you should think about why that is.
I think that you would find the documentary "The Red Pill" very interesting. The documenter explicitly spouts the kind of rhetoric you are now before changing her mind along the journey she takes.
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You're projecting.
Where did I glorify suicide? All I said was I think the reason we see the gap is that women feel there is a way out, ie. feel supported, whereas men don't. I also said that I've seen some argue that women don't want to leave a mess, and I think that's a sexist assumption, that women are selfless even in suicide but men don't care. Accusing me of glorifying suicide in these circumstances is - wait for it - strawmanning.
Now, maybe you're right that some of the people in this comment thread are saying things which could be interpreted as glorifying suicide, because they say that women are more likely to take pills as a cry for help. Personally, I think that you're showing a lack of understanding, they could equally be saying that men would do the same thing, they wish men had that option, but nobody would listen to their cry for help. Perhaps you could ask them what they mean by that, and whether they intend to glorify suicide, rather than making that assumption because their comment isn't crystal clear.
Everything in my previous comment applies. You don't understand the movement, or what brought people here. Watch something that you don't automatically agree with. Try to sympathise.
This isn't the hate that you think it is, a lot of people here just care about men's suicide and don't think that it is getting enough attention. You may think differently, and that's fine, but not everyone has to agree with you - in fact, this sub won't even ban you for stating it, unlike some other subs which would have removed you and your comment in a heartbeat. If you want to bring studies and change our minds, fine, it might even make some of us feel better, but expecting us to litter the comments with studies in every single thread rather than being allowed to just discuss our experiences is unfair - you wouldn't expect that of feminism or TwoX. Tbh, if you were actually willing to listen, we wouldn't have to do that because you'd go looking for it yourself.
Now, you can reply what you want, but if you do continue to project on to me that I'm mad for asking you to sympathise, then I'll be done replying to you. I hope that you calm down and at least watch The Red Pill, it's a good documentary.
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