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[–]hackableyou 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
Hmm. Forced to have an abortion seems to far. You shouldn't be forced to pay her child support though.
[–]albatrossG8 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
Is it too far though? She not only raped me but took my right to choose to have a child, and statistically abortions are safer than pregnancies or even going to jail where she belongs.
[–]hackableyou 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Well her safety is none of your concern. What disadvantages do you get for her having that baby?
[–]mwobuddy 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
So if I rape a woman, she can't force me to allow her to abort my baby?
[–]hackableyou 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Personally, I think abortion is murder and we have been all sold a lie in the name of women's rights. I don't think a baby should be allowed to be aborted in most cases.
[–]albatrossG8 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
No, because it's her body. Which is great because no one can force me to go to jail because it's my body and I don't want my body to be in jail. I have that right because it my body and no one can tell me what I should an shouldn't do with my body.
[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Which is great because no one can force me to go to jail because it's my body and I don't want my body to be in jail. I have that right because it my body and no one can tell me what I should an shouldn't do with my body.
Unless you break a law/perform criminal acts with that body. That body can even be destroyed by the state. If you resist arrest up to a certain point, that body can be executed. If you cause a deadly risk to others, that body can be executed.
There is precedent for your body being subjected to enforced euthanasia/part destruction.
An embryo is not part of her body anyway. Its a separate entity, much like a tapeworm.
[–]albatrossG8 -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
But it's my body, nobody can tell me what to do with my body?
[–]mwobuddy 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Incorrect. Parents can tell you what to do with your body while you're growing up. Parents can even withhold or give you vaccinations, which has a large impact on your body, and you literally have no say. You also have no say to sexuality in a lot of instances as someone under the age of consent. There are points at which people seem to agree a person has limited rights to their own body. Consider the vaccination, it is an affect in your body enforced by a controlling agency that presumably knows what is better for you, e.g. your parents, backed by state. Government institutions can tell you what to do with it (forcing you into asylums for self mutilation, killing you for using your body to harm others, imprisonment for using drugs, making it illegal to be a prostitute), and feminist even agree.
If you are a prostitute, you are a sex trafficking victim. The people who pay you for sex are violating you as a hapless victim, even if you chose that way of life.
[–]albatrossG8 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Good comment.
[–]albatrossG8 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Knowing that I have a son or daughter.
[–]hackableyou 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
How is this a disadvantage if you are not obligated to see it nor pay for it?
[–]civilsaint 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Forcing medical procedures on people isn't really a door we should open [again].
I see why you're angry, but you should just not have any legal responsibility for the child. They shouldn't force you to interact with your rapist.
How is it different from Jail though? Jail is far far far more dangerous than abortion is physically and mentally.
[–]Rasalom72 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Of course you're wrong... you're a man. DUH!
I forgot why I don't come to this sub.
[–]Rasalom72 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Lol... if you are going to ask dumb questions, you will get made fun of.
It seems that you were asking a serious question without doing any of the required thinking about ramifications before you posted.
[–]tiqr 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I appreciate your Edit. It's a mark of maturity to change your opinion if people convince you that your position is wrong.
You have correctly highlighted one of the toughest dilemmas facing men. Sadly, there isn't a clearly better way of doing things than we already do - and the result is that men have considerably fewer reproductive choices than women.
There are only really 2 solutions to this problem:
The financial cost of supporting children needs to be born 100% by the state in all cases. This would mean there is no financial consequence to having a child, so it would be possible for men to "opt out" of the responsibility of an unwanted child. Obviously there are a ton of other problems that a system like this would cause, and it's not likely to ever happen.
Men get effective contraception that is 100% in their control. This might happen in the next few years with vasalgel
[–]Leinadro 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Amen. More reproductive choice for men is a good thing.
[–]tiqr 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yep - it will almost complete resolve the reproductive choice quandary... provided that it is affordable.
[–]aoeusnth0 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You condensed the solutions well. BUT, the other problem is bloated and corrupt child support in USA and probably other countries. There was some video here recently asking a Scandinavian country's child support official about their child support, and their child support is much fairer than the one in USA. So if we had a fair family court system, the problems would be much less.
[–]Leinadro 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Im against forcing a woman to have an abortion for any reason. However I do agree that you should be totally free of any responsibility towards that child.
And if she is a proven rapist her custody rights should be revoked.
[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The child created is half yours if you believe in that sort of thing.
[–]Leinadro 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
That is a true point.
I guess Im too much of a fan of being able to detach myself.
I guess the damning part is that even if she is a rapist the child is growing in her body.
Thats what makes this so hard because while a male rape victim should be free to make his choice about being in the childs life whether or not the child lives resides with her because its her body on the line.
I dont think anyone ready for the hard choice of forcing a woman, even a criminal woman to carry a child to term or have an abortion based on the wishes of the father.
[–]Ithelda 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I don't know how you could prove you were raped. That being said, why would you have to be raped to sue a woman for an abortion? Women fight for their right to have an abortion whenever they want for whatever reason. If they accidentally get pregnant, they want to be able to abort. What if you accidentally get a woman pregnant? What if you weren't expecting to make a baby? Why should you be forced to give your sperm towards the production of a human being, if a woman doesn't have to be forced to give her womb for the production of a human being? Generally speaking, if a woman wants to have a kid, she should be having a kid with someone who actually wants one.
[–]albatrossG8 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
The argument that it's the right to her body to do as she wants and the right for a man to procreate ends at sex.
[–]Ithelda 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I know. That just frustrates me. Like I feel like if some sort of comparable situation occurred where the woman didn't want to use her eggs to make a baby everyone would be in an uproar about the woman's right to her body parts, even if she wasn't the one pregnant. I just feel like... a man can't make a woman keep the baby- if a woman withdraws consent and wants to abort, then she can. But why can't a man withdraw consent too? If the man or the woman at some point withdraws consent for their cells to create a human being, isn't it just the decent thing to abort? Edit: I'm not particularly a fan of abortion myself or anything, but I'm just thinking about the logic that's already out there.
I agree, despite being her body it's still 50/50 each persons child and if one person doesn't want the child than the child shouldn't be born and only giving that decision to one person seems unfair when the alternative to that situation of having the baby is also just as dangerous.
[–]biscuitgravy 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
It should totally be within your rights to have a woman get an abortion even if you weren't raped. Even in this sub, gynocentricism is very strong. But the fact is, she's just as responsible for the sexual act as a man. Even more so in your case. And you're not "forcing" a medical procedure on anyone. She has a choice between two medical procedures and you're making the responsible decision if she doesn't agree to. It's your DNA. If you don't want to donate it to produce a life then that's your choice. And don't give me, the "keep it in your pants" line. How about telling her the same thing?
I can't believe it took me this long to find someone to agree with me.
[–]biscuitgravy 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Np man. People make leaps and bounds to make sure a woman doesn't feel sad after being "sexually assaulted". You deserve the same.
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[–]hackableyou 4 points5 points6 points (11 children) | Copy Link
[–]albatrossG8 -1 points0 points1 point (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]hackableyou 3 points4 points5 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[–]mwobuddy 1 point2 points3 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]hackableyou 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]albatrossG8 -1 points0 points1 point (4 children) | Copy Link
[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]albatrossG8 -1 points0 points1 point (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]mwobuddy 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]albatrossG8 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]albatrossG8 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]hackableyou 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]civilsaint 3 points4 points5 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]albatrossG8 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Rasalom72 1 point2 points3 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]albatrossG8 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Rasalom72 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]tiqr 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]Leinadro 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]tiqr 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]aoeusnth0 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Leinadro 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]mwobuddy 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Leinadro 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Ithelda 0 points1 point2 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]albatrossG8 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]Ithelda 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]albatrossG8 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]biscuitgravy 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]albatrossG8 0 points1 point2 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]biscuitgravy 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link