Are most MRAs conservative?

somebodypurple · 2015-02-07T12:32:38+00:00

in my experience, extremely diverse movement. the only surveys i've seen have been riddled with sabotage, allegedly from feminists. so i'm not gonna label it one way or another. it doesn't matter what our political views are, we are advocating for one thing. i think the deeper you go down this rabbit hole, however, the closer you will come to the conclusion that the purpose for disenfranchising men, taking them out of their children's lives, and making them financially destitute, is to exercise an enormous amount of control on the part of the population least likely to demand totalitarian government control... and handing wealth and political power to the gender most likely to demand totalitarian control.

politics of fear only lead to one thing... some degree of fascism. so to me, advocacy for men's rights is inherently a libertarian action. but to you, it could very well be a socialist action. what matters most is that all humans be equally entitled to all human rights. everything else is secondary, so long as we are systematically and categorically oppressed under laws, statutes, and legal standards. feminists may think they are systematically oppressed, but all of their claimed symptoms of the patriarchy are really just cultural phenomena. nothing they can claim can actually be followed down to a systematic practice. none of the "discrimination" against women is systematic, because the laws very clearly favor women. all institutions of government clearly favor women. there is no institution of government that favors men, and very many of them specifically oppress men.

manspreading is not systematic oppression. it is a manifestation of a biological propensity. mansplaining is not systematic oppression. it is a manifestation of a biological propensity, perhaps tinged with some cultural norms. the list goes on, but all of it pales in comparison to being actively oppressed by your "justice" system. even the police officers and lawyers i know are terrified of their wives. why? because even the people within the system can be eaten alive by it. the system itself profits from your child support and alimony payments. it has literally no incentive to cut you any slack at all. yet it has major incentives to give your wife entitlements to money neither she nor the justice system worked for, because it skims off the top for itself, uncontroversially and completely legally.

in california, a woman can only receive child support and state/federal welfare simultaneously if she relinquishes control of the right to collect on that child support to the state. that is, to get permission from the government to actually get welfare while she's getting child support too, she has to let the government collect it, so it can take its exorbitant "service fees." what this basically means is that a woman can be supported indefinitely, without any job whatsoever, on housing subsidy, food stamps, cash welfare, AND child support payments for personal shopping... but only if she lets the state and city governments tax her baby daddy's manufactured financial obligation to her.

this is how you undermine a society, man. you irreversibly weaken all the men... the people most likely to revolt or intimidate those in power. and you get the women to marry the state. women fall in love with the best providers. it's been this way throughout primate evolution. when the state becomes the best provider, by enabling her to work when before it required two incomes to support her family... she falls in love with the state. now she doesn't even need to work, let alone deal with sucking her husband's dick or picking up his dirty laundry. there are many women on welfare who acknowledge this, believe it or not. it's not some crazy conspiracy theory. this is a well-known fact in the poorest communities. when women fall in love with the state, and the state provides for them, and gives them huge power over men, they feel like queens. they also capitulate to the government's increasing demands for less freedom and more security. studies always show that women value freedom less, and security more. the exact opposite is true for men. this is something we all intuitively know. but we like to pretend that it will have no significant influence on the future of our country. it's already been having an effect for several decades now. all the progress of the 60s was tainted by feminism and marxism, and those eggs all went into the basket of the destruction of the family unit during the 70s and 80s. now here we are in 2015, and the government is spying on us and committing a number of other significant crimes against humanity, and serious violations of the constitution.

as i always say, feminism is, was, and always will be, a trojan horse.

Maschalismos · 2015-02-08T07:07:32+00:00

Hell no. In fact, the first, core group of MRAs were roughly half left-ish, half right-ish. Both groups were aware that both feminism and traditionalism held a raw deal for men.

SRSLovesGawker · 2015-02-07T12:16:29+00:00

Solid lefty here. I'm just not the sort of crazysauce lefty that thinks gender politics trumps everything. Some take it to such an extent that it leads to claims that a homeless white guy has more "privilege" than Oprah. Nutty.

captaintaint · 2015-02-07T19:17:29+00:00

I'm a libertarian, socialist, humanist, atheist. I know that socialism has had a bad name lately but every civilized society needs limited socialism.

iainmf · 2015-02-07T10:39:42+00:00

There have been a couple of 'political compass' survey threads in /r/mensrights and the results have been quite a wide spread of political leanings on the left-right spectrum, but with more on the left side of centre.

Me, I lean to the left politically.

EliCaaash · 2015-02-07T11:07:48+00:00

A study that was on here recently suggested about half of MRA were conservatives I think. The rest were a split between liberals and independents.

A pretty broad spectrum.

wazzup987 · 2015-02-07T14:07:01+00:00

I would say left of center leaning more libertarian. Than right or left. Keep in mind libertarian is north on the political axis not east or west

fia_bui · 2015-02-07T16:34:38+00:00

Define conservative? We're mostly advocating change, so that would surely classify us as radical or progressive right there.

Using the word in the sense of "right wing" I'd say it's a pretty even mix.

EricTheEnt · 2015-02-07T22:32:48+00:00

I'm an secular-anarcho-techno-communist. Im sure that there are a couple of people who agree with me.

Nomenimion · 2015-02-07T14:23:51+00:00

atheist4thecause · 2015-02-07T10:49:26+00:00

First, I don't think anybody really knows the answer to this question. It's really complicated, it depends on how you define the term MRA, collecting data is extremely hard, depends on the area/country you are talking about, etc.

I personally think the MRM does lean a little Right, but not as much as people think it does. The MRM itself does fall on both sides of the political spectrum (and parallel spectrums if you want to include those), and there is no reason anybody should feel excluded from the movement for being a certain race, religion, political affiliation, gender, etc.

I do think that people on the Left have a tougher time speaking out. Feminism strongly falls on the Left, so when a Leftist speaks out, not only do they get slammed by the Right for having the views of Leftists, they get slammed by the Left for not agreeing with Feminism and are unfairly painted as a Rightest.

There is also a pretty big problem IMO within the MRM of MRA's shaming other MRA's. I've felt this first hand quite a bit. If you speak in favor of male circumcision at all, you will unfairly be called "defensive" even by some of the most prominent MRA's in the movement, as I have been. If you are an atheist advocate, you will be attacked for that as I have been. If you identify as a feminist and an MRA, you will be attacked for that. And when I say attacked, I don't just mean attacked. I mean there is shaming language. Words like "religious atheists", all kinds of names like "concern trolls", "SJW's", etc. for people who disagree, Hannah Wallen considers every circumcised man who makes a pro-circumcision argument to be doing so because they are defensive. We hear language about those who think circumcision should be legal (I often make pro-circumcision arguments because I'm on the fence on the issue and I want the dialogue do improve) is "immoral" and "disgusting" who "doesn't care about infants" and "doesn't know what they are talking about" or "needs to research".

So yes, the MRM has these problems. The good news is that all movements have these problems. I think we should work harder to clean this type of intolerance up, but in the end I don't think it defines the movement entirely. There are good issues here to talk about, and the answer to this shaming isn't to be quiet, it's to speak up against those who try to shame others over having a quality discussion about the issues.

MRSPArchiver · 2015-02-07T09:25:07+00:00

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Cassius999 · 2015-02-07T12:17:48+00:00

I wouldnt describe myself as conservative. I am not a creationist I am against the idea that "the market regulates itself" (and the 1% arent either else they would not lobby for political power on the hill). I am pro gay rights (well actually I dont care either way if they marry or not), so no I do not think I fit in the conservative drawer.

wlxr · 2015-02-16T18:49:38+00:00

I'm far left, so no.

rick-p · 2015-02-07T13:15:37+00:00

Fuck voting man

mjsansai · 2015-02-07T09:55:46+00:00

The liberals and progressives always want to give my money to some one else. I don't want their money I want to keep my money. Liberals want my money and that's why I moved overseas 37 years ago. Uncle Sam can't get my money because I have dual nationality and my bank accounts are not under my US passport but another country. Why should I give my money to the US when I derive nothing from the country except my Veterans Administration Service Connected Disability, which I earned in Vietnam and is not taxable anyway. The gender wars will continue until men stop white Knighting women and treating women as adults and not whiny pre teens

Ransom_Stoddard · 2015-02-08T19:25:06+00:00

I used to be a tradcon, but now I am a conservative-leaning (but centrist) Libertarian. I believe in conservative values, because life at is most basic requires labor to provide the necessities of life and any meaningful quality of life.

Liberals/Leftists want to take - by force - from the hard working conservatives - because feelings - to provide for those who are overwhelmingly lazy, have victim mentalities, do not have a hard work ethic, which only weakens people, kills lateral thinking, critical thought, self-sufficiency, stagnates personal growth, kills their ability to care for themselves and fails to toughed-up humans in a cold, hard world.

Title	Are most MRAs conservative?
Author	Raunien
Upvotes	0
Comments	43
Date	February 7, 2015 9:24 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2v2u5x/are_most_mras_conservative/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/are-most-mras-conservative.988640 https://theredarchive.com/post/988640

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