As a girl | MensRights

Liesa92 · 2022-08-19T22:44:49+00:00

I know you probably heard it plenty of times, but I never heard an argument about how a feminist (wanting equal rights for women and men) is not just...

[–]NeoVidia 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Liesa92 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Liesa92 -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]DavidByron2 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Wikipedia has a stated bias (against it's supposed policy of neutrality) against men and men's rights and in favour of feminism. Wikipedia bribes feminists to write and edit feminist biased articles to present the men's rights movement as evil because they think all men are evil -- because they're a hate movement.

Feminism has a long history of lobbying for sexist legislation, sexist and segregationist(*) services for people and sex discrimination by major institutions such as the courts and the police, colleges and schools, hospitals and employers. Not only that but they have a long history of spreading lies to demonize men, including historic revisionism and falsifying data on stuff like domestic violence and rape. They stereotype men as subhuman filth and violent rapists. They claim that women are morally superior to men. They are a hate movement and these are all qualities they share with other hate movements.

(*) unlike old Southern racists who had a "back of the bus" sort of style of segregation, feminists usually insist that men should have no service at all, instead of a separate and unequal service. For example feminist run domestic violence shelters reject all male victims of domestic violence (including children as young as 13). They don't say male victims should be given a shitty cheap shelter elsewhere. They say men should get nothing. They even wrote a law and lobbied for it (and it passed) to make it illegal for anyone to start a shelter for men, or even a 50-50 shelter.

[–]onefreeshot 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Yeah Men's Rights got a really bad reputation for shedding light on the reality that men have problems in society too but way too often get overlooked or taken for granted and combined with criticism towards feminism for catering only to the tip of the iceberg, i.e. pushing more women into well paid sectors, the ones that are in the office mind you, while leaving out the actual girls and women who needed help with rights to education, you can see why Men's Rights has been seen as the evil movement. Add on top of that the narrative that feminism has been passing around for years now that 'men are evil/[or any other negative thing here] by design' and the good ol' 'men are perpetrators, women are victims' which by implication would mean ALL men are perpetrators and ALL women are victims, which anyone with a basic understanding of humans can see how that is flawed because obviously not ALL are that way and even worse shadows the fact that men can be victims too, while the women can also be perpetrators.

Speaking of victims, the most frequent criticism one way or another leads to abuse or, specifically, to rape, saying how men are rapists (again loving to needlessly generalise) and even quoting official numbers on that, but missing out on the fact that not till long ago the official definition of rape was 'penis penetrating vagina' so inevitably meaning any sexual act unwillingly happening to a man by a woman was not rape, a quick sourceon the NL gov which updated the legal term for rape some years ago - https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/blog/updated-definition-rape

Also the gender pay gap got debunked - they were looking at averaged numbers and sometimes not even for the same jobs, nothing but a skewed reality. However, there are scenarios where men heavily outnumber women but not for the good thing: more men on prisons, more men die in wars (no real hate on Ukraine, but men were forbidden to leave the country, I presume you're aware they're at war with Russia), more men in physically intense and dangerous jobs, men die earlier, more suicides by men (I cannot remember if also more attempts) - you can look up TheTinMen on yt or on their posts on reddit they have sources for all the negatives above.

And what do women want that they do not have already?... in the west anyway, which again is where the main focus is, so the very part of the world that needs it doesn't actually get this equal rights wannabe narrative.

[–]Liesa92 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Love this reaction because I feel like it gets so much closer to the real problem, but I still sometimes feel like men do not acknowledge when they are actual victims of the system because it might seem week or some bs like that?

We do have several studies that show that men are much less likely to report sexual assault and more likely to experience sexual assault than to be perpetrators ... that is horrible, especially considering the whole "men don't cry" shit we subsribed to way too long.

Feminism as I understand it (and a lot of other see Emma Watson e.g) want us all to talk about how fucked up everything is;.... Like i know it sucks as a woman, but i wanna know what actually sucks about being a guy - and a lot of the time my feedback is just - women only wanna fuck cool guys...

we can talk about that, but yeah, women like men that actually like them

[–]Liesa92 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Liesa92 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]onefreeshot 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

The wage gap is a well known lie by feminists for -- well I think about 60 years now but maybe more.

You appear to know how the lie works but it's hard for me to be sure because you're not a native English speaker.

corrected for kinds of work and its still skewed

I think you are showing you already know how this lie works by your choice of words.

corrected for kinds of work

So the wage gap lie states that women are paid less than men "for equal work". Of course everyone agrees this would be wrong if it actually happened, even in the USA where the CEOs of a company are paid 100s of times more than the workers. But these statistics do not compare the same work - equal work. They compare a man working as a brain surgeon with a woman working as a receptionist. Then they say it must be sexism that the woman is paid less when of course a man working as a receptionist would also be paid less than a male brain surgeon. So this is a simple lie made by feminists just like the Nazis lied about Jews. For example they would say the Jews own all the banks. This is a lie but simple people who believe it will start to hate Jews just as simple people believing that men are paid more for equal work will hate men.

You are aware that the wage gap is a lie. That is why you said,

corrected for kinds of work

So this tells me you know the original form of the wage gap is a lie. Now to defend this first lie feminists (when they are discovered lying) say something different. They say oh well OK men are not paid more for equal work as I said. Yes that was a lie. I lied. But now I am going to tell you that men are paid more for similar kinds of work. Not the same work. Similar. For example men work longer hours than women do on average and this is a reason why they get paid more of course. But still the man working 50 hours and the woman working 40 hours work similar jobs so the feminists say they should be paid the same money and if they are not then it's sexist. Of course this is just more deception and lying by feminists to make people hate men, just as the Nazis made up stories about Jews.

corrected for kinds of work and its still skewed

Working the same "kind" of work doesn't mean people have earned the same money. They might be working different hours, they might have different qualifications, they might have been working longer at the job (seniority), men might be more willing to move to a new town for a promotion or be less likely to go home early. Many many different reasons a person has a different wage. But no say the feminists imen aren't paid more for working longer hours but because of sexism alone and please forget that you already caught us lying when we said men get more money for "equal work" when that was a lie. Forget how dishonest we are and now believe this second lie.

My question to you: why do feminists lie about men?

Feminists lie about men to make women hate men like the Nazis lied about Jews.

[–]Liesa92 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't need to show you any German study. You already know the wag gap is a lie because you wouldn't have said, "corrected for kinds of work and its still skewed" otherwise, would you?

You already made a mistake and admitted you know the wage gap is a lie didn't you?

Feminists do not generally lie about men

Are they lying in the "wage gap"?

it literally has nothing to do with what we are talking about?

That's fine if you don't want to talk about Nazis. You just said you were interested and so was I. They are similar to the feminists because both hate people for being born "bad people". Nazis hated people born Jewish and feminists hate people born male. So they are similar. Both are also paid by the government to help the elites. So they are similar. But it's fine if you're not interested in all of that.

I want you to tell me if you think the original format of the "wage gap" that says men are paid more than women for "equal work" is a lie. if you say it's not a lie then I want you to explain to me what you meant when you said "corrected for kinds of work and its still skewed".

I think you know the original format is a lie because it says "equal work" is compared and that's false.

[–]Liesa92 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Other factors that are difficult to measure, including gender discrimination, may also contribute to the ongoing wage discrepancy. In a 2017 Pew Research Center survey, about four-in-ten working women (42%) said they had experienced gender discrimination at work, compared with about two-in-ten men (22%). One of the most commonly reported forms of discrimination focused on earnings inequality. One-in-four employed women said they had earned less than a man who was doing the same job; just 5% of men said they had earned less than a woman doing the same job.
Gender pay gap: Does the adjusted pay gap make Germany look better than it really is?
However, the gap differs wildly depending on how you measure it.
If we take into account factors such as education, work experience, company size and sector, the gender pay gap in Germany becomes as little as 6 per cent. This is called the "adjusted gender pay gap". Using this metric, Germany is second from the top.

Some input from my side, would love to see a study that says the adjusted pay gap is 0 in the US <3<3<3

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Liesa92 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Did you understand what I said? I mean because of the language gap.

Do you understand my argument when I say the wage gap is a lie by feminists, and that feminists lie about men to spread hatred of men?

Why do you hate women so much?

Is that projection? You're saying that because you hate men? You don't know anything about me to suggest how I feel about women. Maybe I hate women. Maybe I don't. Maybe I am a woman. Who I am does not change my argument. You understand? So your question here is a bad question.

What I said was I think you know the normal way feminists talk about the "wage gap" is a lie, because they say it's about "equal work", but you know it is not about "equal work" but instead adds up all the wages for men and women from completely different jobs which is the opposite of "equal work".

Do you agree that feminists lie about "wage gap"?

If you do agree - why do you think feminists lie about men this way?

[–]Liesa92 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]onefreeshot 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

One of the problems with feminism is how it wants to completely remove anything about the traditional roles and the fools buying in on that miss out on the big effing point that that's how we got this far and that some of those traditional roles are biologically embedded. Now if you want to live as a single woman and not raise children, fine, but don't push other women to do that too. No man in their right mind expects a woman, or worse yet, his wife to submit to him, stay home, clean etc. This only comes as an understanding of the family dynamic since that was the case some 60 years ago or less depending on what country we're looking at. Instead of going crazy on people misunderstanding it, it could all be solved with some communication, but no let's have a social war between the sexes, because that's what humanity needs right now, it's not enough the dire state the world is in politically, economically, environmentally and whatever the heck else-lly because we've botched it big time.

[–]DavidByron2 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Liesa92 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]DavidByron2 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

as a german, nazis really did not want equal rights and they were the first to think that gay, jewish, disabled or

That's an odd thing to say if you're German isn't it? Do you mean you're in the US but German? The first people the Nazis attacked were Socialists. That's why they were promoted into power -- to fight against socialism and the movement for class equality. Jehoveh's Witnesses were also early victims. The problem with concentrating on the other victims is that it makes you forget why the Nazis were promoted. The elites were afraid of Socialism, especially after the Russian revolution.

Feminism is the same. The Elites today are afraid of Socialism so they promote a hate movement like feminism to attack and undermine Socialism.

all feminist i know and the known description is all people being equal.

Well I don't know much about Germany but in other countries feminism is about hate, not equality. So I don't have good examples of laws by feminists that discriminate because I don't know any German laws.

But, for example in Germany you have the women's parking places, right? Why did feminists support that inequality if they are for equality?

[–]Liesa92 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I know about german history

So you know the Nazis were put into power by German elites to attack Socialism?

just cause you hate it, doesnt make it

I don't hate feminism or Nazism. I think they're wrong but they are abstract nouns. I don't hate an abstraction. Why would I? What you are accusing me of makes no sense. You're saying I randomly decided to "hate" a political ideal without respect to what that ideal is? Of course I think feminism and other hate movements like the Nazis are wrong because I think their ideals and principles and actions are wrong.

As I said the feminists pass sexist laws and demonize men. They are sexist. They try to make women -- like you -- hate men by spreading lies. This is exactly what the Nazis did to the Jews for example. Had you been alive 100 years ago you'd have been a Nazi instead of a feminist and you'd have assumed any group talking about "Rights for Jews" was a bad group of people.

Yes, we have were few parking places for women so they can unload their children

Men have no children in Germany?

It's sexist. Why are you defending sexism? Didn't you tell me that you want sex equality?

it's actually something the conservative party likes

feminism is a conservative / right wing movement like the Nazis. All hate movements are right wing.

You are so sad, I really want you to try to convince me, but you need to read so much about socialism and world economy before you can even compete - what's going on there?

How young are you?

[–]Liesa92 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Ok, I actually find your arguments very enticing... here is very you get me - how do feminists spread lies and hate men, i can show many sources of feminism being defined of men and women being defined as equals. If you think men being treated the same as women is degrading... well, I think you are smart enough to work out that you would be mysoginistic.

I do not agree that its the same to build hate against jews in nazi germany and "hate males" in feminism (which i still ask you to show in any source)

It;s funny, cause you thing I am sad, but I am mostly sad because you cannot show me any reproducable "facts" about women and men - i choose to believe we care about each other equally and somehow you choose to believe the whole world is super mean to you - spoiler alert - it's gonna be even meaner - noone wants to stay with someone who has no feeling for their fellow people...

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

How young are you?

In the ensuing elections in November 1932, the Nazis lost ground, winning 33.1 percent of the vote. The Communists, however gained votes, winning 16.9 percent. As a result, the small circle around President Hindenburg came to believe, by the end of 1932, that the Nazi party was Germany's only hope to forestall political chaos ending in a Communist takeover. Nazi negotiators and propagandists did much to enhance this impression.

On January 30, 1933, President Hindenburg appointed Adolf Hitler chancellor of Germany. Hitler was not appointed chancellor as the result of an electoral victory with a popular mandate, but instead as the result of a constitutionally questionable deal among a small group of conservative German politicians who had given up on parliamentary rule.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-nazi-rise-to-power

A random website I suppose but it seems to agree with what I said. The Nazis were supported by the elites to attack Socialism 100 years ago. Feminism is also supported by the elites to attack Socialism, but today. Were you not taught this in school? What were you taught instead?

I had thought Germany was against Nazis since the end of WW2, but now Germany is supporting Ukrainian Nazis. That's disturbing. Is Germany going to go Nazi again now?

how do feminists spread lies and hate men

Well I have many examples of course but since I don't speak Germany and because not many German people post on English speaking web sites (this is also true of French and Spanish) I don't have examples from Germany and I didn't think you would care about examples from USA, UK, Canada, Australia, India or other countries where people more commonly post here.

But I also think you don't know much about feminism in Germany either.

If you think men being treated the same as women is degrading

MRA support sex equality. Feminism is against sex equality. I just gave you an example of sex equality in Germany (parking spaces for women only) which I think is sexist and wrong but you (a feminist) thought was good. Therefore we can see that MRA support sex equality and feminists do not. At least in this small example, the only example we have both said something about.

I pointed out the women only parking spaces are sexist. In fact it violates EU law doesn't it? Sex discrimination like that is illegal. You defended the sexism. You said:

Yes, we have were few parking places for women so they can unload their children

But this is a lie because (1) men have children too and men with children are not allowed to use these parking spaces (2) women without children can use the spaces. So these spaces are for women only and it is sexism. They are not for parents with children. You made a dishonest excuse for sexism. Instead you should have said "this is a sexist thing in Germany that should not happen" and maybe mention it's illegal as I just did.

Now in fact these women only spaces were created for nothing to do with children. They were created after a lot of talk about how women are raped and the women deserve special treatment and protection better than men do because women might be attacked as they walk across a parking space (especially if there is poor lighting) so they need to be near to the edge in the best places and men need to be further away and be put in more danger so as to save women. Did you know that is the source of these parking spaces and not any talk about children?

[–]Liesa92 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

How young are you, as if I am 80 and just realised what the Nqzis did ^^

"Well I have many examples of course but since I don't speak Germany"

- that was funny

"MRA support sex equality. Feminism is against sex equality. I just gave you an example of sex equality in Germany (parking spaces for women only) which I think is sexist and wrong but you (a feminist) thought was good. Therefore we can see that MRA support sex equality and feminists do not. At least in this small example, the only example we have both said something about."

we can see that you do not understand how basic arguments function

not sure what you are referring to with MRA (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRA) ?

Then you went on to the parking spaces(btw. who cares) and this seems to be your main point for the rest of your post.

Actually, I agree with you after reading this. I think you should get rid of women's parking spaces as well as any other distinguishing factor between women and men. I think yall should get fired for how you act, it'll be hilarious - of course also all the women who tell me to shut my pretty mouth or be quiet cause i might disturb a man - EQUALITY

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

MRA = Men's Rights Advocate

that was funny

Yes. I'm not sure how good your English is so I'm writing a little .... more choppy than normal. That's why I asked about your age.

Then you went on to the parking spaces(btw. who cares)

I care because it's the only evidence of how you think that I have and it seemed to show that you're sexist (but now you say you disagree with it --so good). I agree it's not a big issue but we haven't talked about any other issues except I have replied to some stuff you said about the wage gap elsewhere. Also I think it's a funny issue that perhaps people have talked about a little in Germany so I guessed you would have heard of it and perhaps read what other feminists have said about it.

Actually, I agree with you after reading this

Do you agree that women shouldn't be protected more than men? That's the reason for the parking spots. It's common for right wing political movements like feminists and other conservatives to say women need protecting more than men. They say women are worth more than men and so they must be protected. If that means men are in more danger that's worth it to protect women better. As I hope you can see this is an issue far bigger than parking spots. For example in Ukraine men are being stopped from leaving the war while women are allowed to cross the border and go to safety. This is life and death. Has Germany supported this policy?

As I said I don't know much about Germany but I agree feminism is the same everywhere and everywhere feminism says women must be protected more than men.

Can you think of any laws that feminism has lobbied for in Germany?

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Well I won't get into my life but I believe I have been through more than most and if you were to tell me that my life was inherently easier over something I didn't have control of it would be extremely unfair and make me very angry and upset. When I was able to sort of get out of hardship, I realized that it wouldn't be fair to tell anybody that their life is inherently easier or harder over something they didn't have control over. I believe that is what feminism is doing now- telling people that only women can have it hard and only men can have it easy, that only men can be the aggressor and women be the victims, that only men can have privilege and women cannot have privilege, or if they do-not to the extent men have it. And the movement of feminism (which I believe has more media power than the other way around) is using news to push that narrative in ways that are beginning to become harmful to the mental and sometimes physical health of everybody

Title	As a girl
Author	Liesa92
Upvotes	1
Comments	47
Date	August 19, 2022 10:44 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/wsr9gd/as_a_girl/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/as-a-girl.1128783 https://theredarchive.com/post/1128783

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