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Economist Author Discusses 'Men Without Work: America's Invisible Crisis'. Says 7m men of prime working wage - 25 to 50 yo - aren’t working - highest size recorded, and U.S. highest of the industrial nationals by far

TerriChris

December 22, 2017
22 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.artofmanliness.com/2017/12/18/podcast-365-7-million-men-missing-workforce/
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Title Economist Author Discusses 'Men Without Work: America's Invisible Crisis'. Says 7m men of prime working wage - 25 to 50 yo - aren’t working - highest size recorded, and U.S. highest of the industrial nationals by far
Author

TerriChris

Upvotes 22
Comments 22
Date December 22, 2017 11:22 PM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7ll2vi/economist_author_discusses_men_without_work/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/economist-author-discusses-men-without-work.1173444
https://theredarchive.com/post/1173444
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Comments

[–]DevoutSubculture 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

what's it feel like I wonder... to have never had economists panic over your sex not working

[–]JStheHammer 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I've seen it was 10 million.

[–]hixidom 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

If it's normalized with respect to population size, US is not the record.

[–]TherapyFortheRapy 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

I just can't sign on to any argument that says 'this is normal'. This is the result of a failed economic recovery after the 2008 crash, where Washington decided to back the bankers and leave the rest of us to suffer.

[–]ee4m 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

The banks were deregulated and they all joined up. They were so powerful there was a gun to our head. When they are all joined up, letting the worst of them fail becomes impossible.

[–]hixidom 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

People don't like the idea of someone becoming homeless because their bank went out of business (something completely out of their control). What are we supposed to do, not use banks?!

[–]ee4m 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

Regulate property market, build social housing, stop predatory practices by banks and vulture funds. Regulate banks, regulate economy so there isnt an extreme boom bust cycle, make wages more fair so the elite dont inflate property prices too much with investment and ordinary people are better equiped to manage fluctuations.

[–]hixidom 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

The typically-proposed solution is to raise minimum wage, but I think reducing regulations would be a better solution to help ordinary people manage fluctuations. It would reduce our dependence on large corporations if the guy flipping burgers at mcdonalds were allowed to cook meat on a stick instead and sell it on the sidewalk, earning money for himself instead of for someone else. Right now there's so much regulation that you usually can't meet them all if you're new to industry. The only way to go forward is to latch on to a giant.

[–]ee4m 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

Reducing regulations is what caused the crash in the first place.

This whole move to deregulate isnt supposed to benefit us, thats just the way it was sold to us.

In the free market days of past capitalism people didnt thrive and all become self employed business people.

The majority lived in hell.

The new gov in the us is stripping away regulations. Work place safety, reporting of injuries and wants another reagan style boom bust situation.

As trumps says thats great, because people like him buy when guys like us have lost everything.

The homeless problem will only get worse so long as we keep pushing right.

[–]hixidom 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

In the free market days of past capitalism people didnt thrive and all become self employed business people.

"thrive" is a relative term. In the US, it means that everything is bubble wrapped, and people don't have the freedom to buy cheaper goods and services even if they are willing to take the associated risks. When I think of a "lesser" country where the streets are filled with unregulated salesman and customers, I see a lot of people thriving who would be homeless in the US because we are afraid of not living in a highly regulated society. Here we look down on that sort of free market. We think: How could they be thriving if they don't live in a house or eat food or use medicine that doesn't obey this mountain of regulations that we have here?

The only reason we have those regulations is to keep out competition that would drive the price down. Fast food giants don't want to compete with street food, doctors don't want to compete with outsiders who didn't have pay 200k for their degree, the government in general doesn't want things to be cheap because then it loses sales tax. Regulation fixes all of these "problems", making life good for the establishment, while making it harder for everyone else.

It's the same with almost every industry in the US. The established sellers in the industry protect their market by lobbying for more regulations and licencing to be required, making it illegal for the average joe to do something like fix someone's toilet or cut someone's hair without taking courses and paying money to the very same group that lobbied for the regulations to begin with. Maybe this doesn't apply to the sorts of banking regulations you were referring to though. I agree that we should make it harder for large corporations, but I think that making it easier for small businesses is the best way to do that.

[–]ee4m 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

There is no such thing as a free market first of all, its political and the powers that be decide whats free.

The corporate power behind the free market movement has no intention of putting big fast food out of business.

If you go to africa where anyone can set up a street food business, those people are not thriving.

The west and the elite are taking all the countries wealth, putting little tax back in and living lavish lifestyles while the majority live hand to mouth.

Left libertarian I can get behind, right libertarianism, which is an appropriation of left libertarian - is a means to consolidate wealth and power with the corps. and the elite, and exclude the majority of people from the democratic process.

[–]hixidom 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

If you go to africa where anyone can set up a street food business, those people are not thriving

I disagree, based on the interactions I've had with street businesses in Thailand. Yes the food will make you sick with a slightly higher probability, but one of the sellers I talked to said he makes enough money to send his daughter to an international school. There was so much freedom there and I fell in love with it. You can say it's bad for them but if they were in the US they would be homeless or on welfare.

[–]ee4m1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

They can't be that free if american corporations haven't wiped out the small businesses.

And thai sellers have the advantage of the massive tourism industry.

The country that scores highest (or second highest) in the freedom index is singapore, which has very low levels of start up activity and 60% of the population priced out of shelter.

I just checked the freedom index.

Thailand scores not free in one category and moderately free in another and difficult situation with freedom of the press.

I know I cant own a business or property there without being married to a local.

And this article is talking about the capitalist elite waging war on the working and middle class and them revolting and the potential for right wing dictatorship.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/03/29/thai-m29.html

[–]hixidom1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't trust the "freedom index" for this very reason, but I know there are plenty of criticisms one could mention of Thailand, as you already have. The government does become more corrupt in its dealing with large businesses, but it seems to turn a blind eye to small guys (a form of corruption that I can forgive). Maybe they just don't spend as much money on local police, and maybe they don't have to because they have harsher laws for crimes like drug possession.

[–]ee4m1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I wasn't criticizing Thailand.

Im saying the reason you saw good things there is not to do with free market capitalism.

They had liberal democrats in that privatized everything and attacked the poor, before that they had unregulated fiancials that crashed the economy.

Since then they have re nationalized a lot of industry and embraced economic policy that looks after the poor. They have good social welfare and progressive tax. The state takes an active role in promoting small business. They have direct state investment in large scale infrastructure projects.

This is a much better system than boom / bust, low growth, fuck the poor and the middle, free market capitalism.

The danger is that the far right form a dictatorship and go back to more free market policies.

[–]ee4m1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Bit more information here.

Thailand has state capitalism not small government capitalism.

Its a superiour form of capitalism that distributes more wealth in the economy.

And I said about not letting foreigners own business or property without marrying a local - this would provide the country with a high degree of protectionism and allow local, small business more chance to thrive.

https://thediplomat.com/2016/03/the-rise-of-state-capitalism-in-thailand/

[–]ee4m1 point 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Sorry for the multiple posts.

Thailand has progressive tax.

https://www.tiger-consulting.net/!tiger/documents/ProgressiveTaxRatesThailand2015FINAL.pdf

Social welfare.

http://www.expatfocus.com/expatriate-thailand-social-security

They aren't following the free market doctrine, if they were things wouldn't seem so much better.

[–]ee4m 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Our shithead neoliberal politicans respond to the homeless crisis the same way.

"Oh these figures are normal".

Fucking bullshit, they are only normal because of economic policies.

[–]ee4m 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

It would be a big step forward to get the capitalist class to agree to go back to providing full employment.

At the same time, there are tax incentives available to encourage employers to automate in the US now so the sensible battle is probably going to be to get the new machines taxed and for that money to be used to provide universal pay to the population.

The only other options would be extensive social welfare or mass incarceration and a sterilization campaign of some sort.

I fear that further removing food regulations will open the door to under handed methods for controlling men who are increasingly under economic, social and legal attack.

One of the benefits of the attack on men is that sooner or later men are going to wake up and rebel. Its just a shame it has to get so bad before we stand up for ourselves.

[–]ee4m -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

American enterprise institute.

These guys are not the friends of mens rights. Eroding unions, workplace safety regulations, pollution restrictions, safety nets, wages, etc.

They represent a bigger threat than feminism.

Here is a good way of solving unemployment. Dont rig the system so it takes most families two jobs to survive.

Here is another, raise wages and lower the working week.

[–]Mens-Advocate 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Have you sought therapy?

[–]ee4m 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That is a feminist style argument.

Code white in the catalogue of feminist shaming tactics.

https://exposingfeminism.wordpress.com/shaming-tactics/

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