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I had a gut feeling about this.

Maxi-Spade

February 28, 2023
11 upvotes
/r/MensRights

The surprising reason why lesbians get paid more than straight women

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/25/the-surprising-reason-why-lesbians-get-paid-more-than-straight-women/

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Post Information
Title I had a gut feeling about this.
Author

Maxi-Spade

Upvotes 11
Comments 42
Date February 28, 2023 12:42 AM UTC
(3 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/11ds2pu/i_had_a_gut_feeling_about_this/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-had-a-gut-feeling-about-this.1154106
https://theredarchive.com/post/1154106
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Comments

[–]shit-zen-giggles[M] [score hidden] 3 years ago stickied comment (2 children) | Copy Link

please remember to choose a descriptive title for your future posts

[–]Maxi-Spade3 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

OK sorry Captain!

[–]lumpynose2 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Non paywall link:

https://archive.vn/rMVTk

[–]pearl_harbour1941 27 points28 points29 points 3 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Melinda Gates, the philanthropist and mother of three, gathered from listening to her kids and their friends that the next generation of American spouses expects to evenly split the household chores.

“I’m sorry to say this, but if you think that, you’re wrong,” she wrote to high schoolers Monday in her annual open letter, co-penned with her husband Bill Gates. “Unless things change, girls today will spend hundreds of thousands more hours than boys doing unpaid work simply because society assumes it’s their responsibility.”

According to OECD stats (that actually don't take into account outside house work done by men), women spend an average of 4hrs25m a day doing unpaid "work", where men spend 2hrs15m [source: https://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?queryid=54757] A difference of 2hrs10m.

That's 15hrs a week.

52 weeks a year. (780 hours a year).

Hundreds of thousands of hours MORE than boys would require girls to live to at least 256 adult years [200,000 / 780].

But wait, it gets better:

The domestic division of labor remains staggeringly unbalanced in the United States, where female breadwinners now support 40 percent of homes. Women here typically spend two hours and 12 minutes daily on housework, while men spend one hour and 21 minutes.

So, only 50m difference!

Lets do those sums again: 50m x 7 = 6hrs (approx) = 300hrs a year - girls would have TO LIVE 660 YEARS OF ADULT LIFE.

The rest of the article is also junk:

The wife penalty

Men, it turns out, might be holding their partners back when they don't share non-work tasks.

But also:

Lesbian premium

...two-women households, on average, see lower combined income than man-woman arrangements

So, with NO man holding them back, women earn less.

Why did they even bother writing this garbage?

[–]Maxi-Spade[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Danielle Paquette wrote that. I had a gut feeling that lesbians get paid more than hetro women was what I wondered about, but it's her opinion.

[–]pearl_harbour1941 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I don't know who Danielle Paquette is.

It would be interesting to look at some clearer stats regarding hetero/lesbian pay differences. My guess is that it wouldn't necessarily be easy to tease out the right stats to find out why.

For example, do lesbian couples have fewer children overall than hetero? I would assume so, but where's the data?

Are lesbian women more assertive in the workplace, bargaining for higher salaries than hetero women?

Do lesbian women study more and have higher educational achievements?

And as a bonus question: when compared with hetero and gay men, is there any salary difference/hours worked etc.?

[–]lumpynose 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Are lesbian women more assertive in the workplace, bargaining for higher salaries than hetero women?

Do lesbian women study more and have higher educational achievements?

There was a comment in this sub or one of the other mrm subs that lesbians made more because they understood that they weren't going to marry some guy who would "save" them, that they understood that they need to be financially independent.

[–]pearl_harbour1941 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Interesting. I'd love to see some stats.

Kinda does raise a question about "strong independent women" though, doesn't it.

[–]Maxi-Spade[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

Danielle Paquette wrote the article we are discussing here. Didn't you see my post?

You pretty much ripped into the article furiously and missed my mention of who wrote the article.

Boy, you missed that moment. We are like two ships passing by. Man overboard. At least the Captain is still a float.

But boy, you sunk the boat of this article. I would love to see you go head to head with the writer of this article.

We should have a men's debate club out here. Who sunk my battle ship? Yeah, call it battle ship. Then get a bunch of you guys on YouTube debating feminists.

Sell tickets. The winner gets the pot to put towards their choice to fund their group. If the men win, it goes towards funding a charity within the men's group. I think a number of you would be good at this.

[–]pearl_harbour1941 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Sure. I don't know who Danielle Paquette is though. Is she some kind of special?

[–]Maxi-Spade[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

She wrote this article I posted.

The surprising reason why lesbians get paid more than straight women

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/25/the-surprising-reason-why-lesbians-get-paid-more-than-straight-women/

[–]pearl_harbour1941 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes I read the article, it's the same one as in the post at the top. Is she someone special? Or just a no-name.

[–]Maxi-Spade[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't know? Why don't you investigate that!

[–]griii2 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Great comment. I found some other numbers and I am going to write a post about unpaid work (as soon as I get the time).

[–]pearl_harbour1941 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Good idea.

I have noticed that calculations for unpaid housework only focus on those tasks that women historically have taken care of: laundry, dishes, cleaning, etc. They do not take into account car maintenance, lawn mowing, snow shoveling, getting cats out of trees, fixing hoses, etc. etc.

As reductive as this will seem: my opinion about this is that women see all "outside" work as "fun time" for dad. If this is true, there will be reasons for it, and my first guess is that (as a group) women have more trouble coping with negative emotions. This means that while they are doing the laundry/dishes/cleaning they have a negative feedback loop going on in their heads making it feel like those tasks are a negative. In reality they are just neutral tasks. But she's fighting the negative emotions, so it's work to her.

Meanwhile the man comes in soaking wet and cold from fixing the faucet of the hose, beaming because HE FIXED A THING. Men tend towards positive emotions, given a choice, and especially when he fixes stuff himself. So from her perspective, if he came in looking happy, it must have been fun and therefore not work. So it gets excluded.

But I'm open to correction on this if any women reading would like to give a different perspective?

[–]griii2 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's even more interesting. I found EU data showing that single women do way much house work than single men. I need to write to post :)

[–]pearl_harbour1941 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'd love to see that. Means that the starting level of acceptable behaviour is different for men and women.

[–]Siganid 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Also left out of this conversation:

Women often desire a much more intricate routine of chores simply for the sake of it or bragging rights. Bachelor pads have a reputation as less complex, less decorated places for a reason.

If you are the one who insisted on 879 lace doilies, 493 pillows, triple layer curtains or whatever other dumb garbage the home magazine told you was in style, you definitely deserve to clean it yourself.

Obligating your partner to maintain a house to a higher standard of complexity than they want is as unfair as expecting someone to do all the chores based on gender.

[–]manicmonkeys 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I think this is the biggest point to be made here. It would be like a husband wanting a motorcycle that his wife doesn't care for, then the husband being upset that he has to do all the maintenance and repairs on it himself. Like...duh?

[–]Maxi-Spade[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

What difference does it make to you what the husband & wife arrangement is?

I remember this one Christian couple where the woman waited on him hand and foot. I wasn't raised in that environment, so of course, one could judge them based on she's a slave.

My parents were difference they helped each other out, and they were much liberal about it. They worked it out, and neither one of them complained. They rarely had arguments. I could only remember the few they have had.

My favorite one is you're just like your daughter from both of them. I thought what? Now I know I have my dad's styled appeal and my mom's playful nature. I think both my parents were good cooks.

It's no one's business how people live their lives. It used to bother me about that one woman was like that. They had me and this couple for dinner, who also didn't like it either. But so what it's what suited their own arrangement fine. Maybe not our thinking, but it's okay as long as the man doesn't beat her.

Everyone gets their panties in a bunch over who does what. I think I inherited my mom's backbone because she was not one to take crap. This whole business is about how this or that makes a person feel. The one thing I have learned is that when finding the right person, there must be some familiarity but not all.

I don't want to live with someone who reminds me completely of the past. I mean, who would? A smart person would want a future with someone. Don't go backward because that could cause more tension! I want to look in his eyes and say you're my future. Plus, if I can make him laugh. I score! I don't have to play hockey.

He can love sports even if I don't care for it all that much. Niagara Falls

If he loves the same kinds of foods I like. We are in the night!

[–]Siganid 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

What difference does it make to you what the husband & wife arrangement is?

The difference becomes relevant when it's cultural expectations enforcing the agreement instead of mutual discussion.

When my girlfriend's parents visit my house and say it "needs a woman's touch" they are reinforcing an unnecessary view that men's taste is inferior. It isn't, and I genuinely prefer a sparser, less cluttered home because of the ease of upkeep.

In my case I'm fortunate because it became something for my partner and I to laugh about, but in several past relationships, and even a marriage, it was an actual point of conflict.

Several past women in my life genuinely believed that the woman "owned" the house because that was culturally reinforced, and that it was the man's job to maintain it to the woman's standards. That meant the woman essentially dictated all decisions about the home, but the man became responsible for the debt and labor it took to accomplish them.

If one partner or the other is drawing on cultural beliefs to trample the other, it becomes invalid and unworthy of respect.

You do have a point that if both partners choose to follow a belief system then they shouldn't heel to outside input, but that only reinforces my point, because cultural beliefs are outside input themselves.

[–]Maxi-Spade[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Here's what would be an ideal situation. You get a 3 bedroom condo apartment or loft. Each of you has your own room you decorate to your liking. One bedroom you decide on together. Then same with the other rooms.

So when you have fights, you have your own rooms. The other bedroom is the makeup room. Just go to town with sex. I thought well I like the idea of

Maybe lhave a mud bath. So when you pissed at each other, mudwrestle till you can't anymore. People have told me that mad sex is pretty good. But I wouldn't know?

But I think the mud wrestling bath could save marriages or make them interesting? Besides, you could make it multi-purpose. Mud is good for the skin, plus you get exercise rolling around naked.

[–]Maxi-Spade[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I never had that problem. I decided with my ex-boyfriend we'd pick furniture together. I honestly think he didn't want to leave me. Since he slept in the bedroom and it was the furniture I picked out.

I took it with me. But the bed fell apart. I made a joke that if I ever get married, it will be a breaking the bed ceremony. I love how Jewish weddings are how the men step on the glass.

Well, I thought, why not break the bed? Then you have to buy a new one. Just make sure the one you break is old. I guess you break the bed because all that time, you have been single.

My ex-bf has a temper like Donald Duck. I.would tease him about that.

[–]shit-zen-giggles 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

this article was published 7 years ago

February 25, 2016 at 8:30 a.m. EST

Other than that: The author did the usual. Drive resentment and blame in the beginning of the article then the further down you go you find the nuances and caviats.

This is a good example for 'how you indoctrinate a population'

Never the less: Thanks for sharing 🙏

[–]Maxi-Spade[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

YW, so does this mean I get a raise? 🤣😂 I'm kidding

[–]CordisMagnus 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Sorry... you don't "get" a raise. You require a raise. Quiet wheels don't get extra grease. Communicate your needs directly and effectively.

Oh... and if you like the job, and don't want to go elsewhere (the "or else" inherent in the raise demand), then that job satisfaction is your compensation!

[–]Maxi-Spade[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Relax, I was being a little cheeky. Besides, when I work, I do a good job to the best of my abilities.

[–]CordisMagnus 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Adamance, but not anger. You'll get a raise if you require one. Squeaky wheels get grease. That was advice about attitude.

[–]Maxi-Spade[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, it's like if you're going to sleep with your boss. Make sure you're married to him so they can make for good rumors. My joke doesn't take it seriously. Besides that might be fun with the right one?

[–]deeredman1991 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Paywall, didn't read...

If the answer is anything other than "because women are hypergamous and so lesbians have to work harder to attract a woman than straight women have to work to attract a man" I am going to call bullshit.

[–]Maxi-Spade[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Here's an added bonus

My Boyfriend Is Perfect. Except for His Ideal Living Arrangement. I always give in. ADVICE BY LILLIAN KARABAIC

https://slate.com/business/2023/02/boyfriend-buying-house-refusal-personal-finance-advice.html#cxrecs_s

[–]pearl_harbour1941 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

WOW. "My boyfriend won't bend to my will ALL the time, only most of it"
Advice columnist: "Ditch him"

​

Do these women realize what suffering they are basting each other with??

[–]Maxi-Spade[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

My ex-bf said to me once that I would have done that to him. I thought about that, and no, he didn't know me well enough. My parent's liked him so much I think they were ready to replace me with him.

He was like my grandfather. My mom even said that. She used to sneak up on him and tickle his feet. The funny thing is that when my grandfather yelled at the politicians on TV, my ex would yell at the Televangelists on TV.

I would just shut the idiot box off. That's what my parents called Television. It was the idiot box because it didn't allow you to think. It did the thinking for you. The commercials were brainwashing. Growing up in the era of making life easy with TV dinners.

My parents made their own TV dinners. I miss my moms chicken pot pies and pies. I stink at making pasty. She could do that better than me. She was also better at housework. That's why opposites attract.

[–]pearl_harbour1941 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

He's now your ex-bf though. Why?

[–]Maxi-Spade[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I moved to the big city for him under the condition we'd get married. He said yes, then after four years he didn't want to so I moved out.

He lied, and I wanted to get married because of both my beliefs morally, and I wanted a family. He's a compulsive liar, but I don't hate him for that.

He told me he lied because of living under a communist regime. Maybe he felt pressured by me like I was putting a gun to his head. I thought about that after?

You had to lie to survive. Otherwise, face the firing squad. He was raised Catholic like me. But I like the Protestant side more.

He told me that if he went to confession and told the truth, he'd be shot for it. So it must have been horrible living under a gun.

He came as a refugee from Romania, and we broke up around the Revolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_Revolution

We broke up on good terms, and I was jobless at that time. I think we were also hurt because I said something hurtful out of the hurt. It's stupid when I think about it.

I eventually moved out. I had a bit of breakdown while we separated, but if I didn't have God, it could have been a lot worse.

Marriage was important to me. But here's the thing. I thought at one point I was pregnant, only then he would have married me. That's when I said that's not the reason for marriage you marry because you make it a commitment.

Before, I didn't understand the guidelines of my beliefs, so at the time, he said he would have married me. I didn't feel right about the idea that a baby would trap him in a marriage.

See, because I worry about the idea of a guy feeling trapped, then 20 years later, he hates you for that. That's the part that bothers me. Not the commitment part. It's how you feel down the road.

This is the funny part about the break up. I slept on the couch, and he slept in the bedroom. I picked the bedroom furniture out. He picked up the living room.

Oh, and when he was roommates with his friend, he was next to nothing. I bought him towels because I had to shower there.

This gets better. We had a debate once. His friend put in the bathroom a naked woman. I couldn't stand it.

So doing the female thing I got the opposite magazine of a naked guy. When no one was looking. I taped him beside her. I waited till the shit hit the fan.

Oh, I got in trouble and was told to take him down. I said she goes with him. Then his friends gf gets involved. She didn't like it either.

My argument was that if you have a woman in your life, why do you need reinforcements? Guess who won? The girls, that's who.

Now I don't get into debates often, but if he wants naked pictures, he can have mine to look at. I will pose on a horse naked if it makes him happy.

But I won't put up with some strange woman. I was really jealous back then. When we broke up I took the pictures so his friends couldn't see them!

I won't even look at a male stripper. I don't care about this girl night out crap or let's be like the boys. I was never into that stuff. I even hate when men look me over so that's me I'm conservative not slutty for the world to see.

The chatline I learned a lot of sex education about this size thing. Both men & women sizes. I was like surprised at how much sex education doesn't teach you.

I don't have hang ups but if I'm wild it's one on one with one man and not the crazy shit people are doing like threesomes or hot wifing or having sex with a black guy to shame your husband or boyfriend stuff.

I think that saying if you go black, you never go back is a stupid cliche that someone put out there. I don't know why? Do I have to know why?

Yes, I got an education on the chatline, but I won't change my stance to become something I'm not. Besides you have to love the person for who they are.

My ex-bf at one time wanted to become a stripper. I said no you do that and I am gone. You want to know why?

Because some of those women are crazy. Then I would have to put up with them and his ego getting bigger. I certainly don't want that. He already knew I was crazy about him.

I had to tear down the idol because he reminded me of Dr Zhivago. I had an Omar Sharif crush as a young girl. It was the eyes. My ex-bf reminded me of Omar, but he didn't look like him.

No, it was the mustache part. He thinks he looks like a younger version of Lech Walesa, the polish leader. People think i look like someone's polish relative. i am more mixed.

He didn't have straight teeth. His teeth were horrible. It was his character, and he looked like a teddy bear with hush puppy eyes. It's weird, but I kept him from getting into fights with other guys.

When we went to the bar and some guy made a comment about me. He wanted to smash him. I said no because I didn't want him getting into trouble over me. I stood in front of the other guy and said. Then I guess you'll hit me.

He backed down, but I was doing it for him, not going to jail. He spent time in jail when he escaped. So he had a very traumatic part of his youth.

He told me what he went through, and I pretty much said my family is his family. I felt badly that he was so far away from home. We used to send care packages to his family.

When I worked in retail clothes, I would get women's stuff discounted so he could send something nice for his mom and sister. I only learned to say Csókolom which means I give you a big kiss.

I said it to his mom on the phone long distance, and she laughed. I wanted to meet his parents. I even dreamed of the day I would visit his country.

He told me that when he was bullied by his male teacher. She went down to see the teacher. She picked up a broom and hit the teacher with the broom.

Kinda made me think of Pippi Longstocking in a way. I thought it was kind of cool that his mom would deal with his teacher like that. I was thinking she'd get into trouble here or America.

Oh, he loved America, and he wanted to move there. I told him he had to meet me first. He took me through America, and I guess I loved it, too.

I miss the funny side of him. He really could make me laugh. He was like a child sometimes. But he hated when I wore old vintage clothing.

He'd say I'm wearing dead people clothing. I like vintage, still like the 1940s or the 1920s style. The Gothic look.

He loves fashion, well-made fashion, not junky cheap stuff. So I learned a lot from him. The best and funniest memories I have were window shopping with him.

We'd go to the mall to the perfume counter. He would spray on men's cologne, and he'd put the spray bottle down and say. See, now I don't pay for it. It's free. 🤣

[–]Maxi-Spade[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Because I don't know if we loved each other enough? I wanted it to work, but I wasn't happy. I think the problem was our issues got in the way. I dealt with mine. I realize where I went wrong. I developed a lot of sicknesses.

I went through every possible thing out there. I have realized the only way to function is to give it all to God. I realized I'm a mess, and I would let God change me.

I realized a relationship is not meant to fix each other. It's meant to help each other. You see each others flaws, and you accept each other anyway. You see each other's blind spots. Moreover, you have to like each other.

You can't force yourself to like someone. I have already tried that, so I won't be manipulated by some guy who says I'm not hearing from God. Obviously, God isn't going to force someone on me because there's toxic individuals out there who think just because they like you and you're single. You may be the one?

One guy in the Christian arena married someone he's not attracted to now. He's regretting it. I would, too, because there's ding dongs out there that should shut up! I want a healthy relationship, not a crazy one!

There's people out that think attraction isn't important as much as the heart. We then why on earth do we feel attracted to certain people but not others?

It's not like we are animals for breeding. There's got to be some chemistry there. otherwise, how can we attract each other? By smell? Yeah, some guys have smelly fetishist. That's too weird for me.

Some guy on the chatline wants to buy my panties for $20.00 so he can sell them for $50.00. You're not supposed to sell anything on the chatlines. I just laugh at this stuff because some of it's funny.

I got about 20 marriage proposals from mostly American guys. But of course, I am frigging scare to move again unless I know them here. I can't do the long distance. The guys were cute and funny.

I would get called a democrat then they would call me a republican. I said no sides, but I feel honored that you think I'm American. They are funny. I looked out for them by telling them scammer stories so they wouldn't get into trouble.

This one guy got mad at the women and said you shouldn't play games. I think he was Mexican, and he scolded all the women. Who follows a woman home? Then she invites him in and tells him how much she charges? I think some guys are naive.

So I think the chatline is funnier than a sitcom. His accent reminded me of Mr. Tudball.

The intercom - Carol Burnett https://youtu.be/aJpKCnRHE0E

[–]griii2 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

OMG. Just... just imagine the genders reversed.

[–]bigbouncingbanana 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Paywall.

What's the tl dr?

[–]pearl_harbour1941 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

TL:DR

Melinda Gates thinks girls in the US are going to have to live to beyond 660 years old to get all the housework done (girls will spend hundreds of thousands of hours more than boys doing unpaid work)

Also, men are bad.

But lesbians earn less than man/woman combo. So with no man around, women earn less. No reason given.

[–]lumpynose 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

https://archive.vn/rMVTk

[–]IceCorrect 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Its not. Women become men they want to date, yet those women in pants are not attracted to men, so the only people who would like to date them are another women, especialy if they have male traits.

[–]nineteenletterslong_ 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

if you refresh the page, the paywall goes away

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