Is this illegal or just wrong?

Betrubnis · 2012-06-08T06:12:11+00:00

I think this is more of a Trans issue than a Men's Right issue. While the manner of openness of the OP does seem somewhat peculiar, I would ask you to keep in mind the difficulties that many Transgender men and women face and would surmise that the OP's predicament is more complicated than she has let on.

On the side, I would ask you to please consider the language you use as your post seemed to steer near equating transgender intimacy with rape. I hope this was not your intent however I will still remind you that Transphobia is not (or should not) be tolerated on this subreddit.

ninjarxa · 2012-06-08T06:05:18+00:00

It's not illegal, but it is immoral to intentionally mislead someone by deception. I don't think it can be nor should be classified as sexual assualt either.

Darkling5499 · 2012-06-08T07:17:19+00:00

until the bot wakes up:

I was checking out /r/okcupid, because I'm a single guy and stumbled on this post:

In a difficult spot, went on a couple dates with a guy from OkC, things are going great, he doesn't know I'm non-op mtf. Help!

In the post the poster talks about getting intimate with the guy without telling him that she is a he. This has just been nagging at me since reading it. I don't want to use the rape word, but it feels wrong, is there any legal protection in these situations?

Embogenous · 2012-06-08T08:14:17+00:00

without telling him that she is a he.

She isn't a he. She is a she. A trans woman has a gender identity of female. Gender pronouns refer to the gender of a person; in this case female, she.

I think it's wrong if there's a quality about yourself that you believe will cause a person to reject you, and you deliberately hide it so to avoid that. It's not illegal, though, nor should it be.

I don't want to use the rape word, but it feels wrong, is there any legal protection in these situations?

Should there be legal protection for having sex with a woman who says she's Catholic but is actually Jewish? One who pretends to have real breasts but actually has fake? One who is ten years older than she says? Beyond irrational transphobia, why is this so much worse?

2012-06-08T05:45:23+00:00

it's something that should be clear and prominent in the profile.

it's justification for the unknowing partner to feel that they had been sexually assaulted by deception.

Grapeban · 2012-06-08T16:03:06+00:00

Sigh, we're having this topic are we?

Alright, here are my views, and this is one of those things which I am very set in my ways about, I'm normally open to education, but I can't see myself changing here.

A trans person is under no obligation to tell their partner they are trans. You have no right to know that your partner is trans, in the same way that you have no right to know that your partner is a smoker, or bisexual, or has a pacemaker.

If you have an issue with your partner being trans, then that is your job to say so. If you're insecure about your sexuality or close-minded, it is your responsibility to inform your partner.

However, in the case of the trans person in question, as they are non-op, they should tell their partner before they have sex. Just to avoid complications.

And for those who accuse non-informative trans people of "deception", that's total bullshit. It's not as if you're dating this person on the condition that they are cis, are you? If you assume they are cisgender and are upset when you find out otherwise, that is your problem, not their's, there has been no deception.

Finally, a list of reasons why a trans person might not instantly out themselves to partners:

1) It's very personal and private information. Do you tell your medical history to every date you have?

2) It puts the person at risk. You read a lot of comments from people saying, "If I found I was dating a tranny, I would kill them/beat them up/spit on them and dump them." Violence against trans people is a reality, "trans panic" is a legitimate legal defence.

3) They may wish to put that period of their life behind them. Living as the wrong gender is very uncomfortable and upsetting for many trans people and they may simply not want to relive those times.

And there are many more reasons, but those 3 will do for now.

TL;DR

A trans person not saying they are trans to their partner is no more rape than a bisexual not telling their partner they are bisexual. If you have an issue with trans people, it is your responsibility to inform them you are bigoted/insecure, not their responsibility to inform you they are trans. In the case of a non-op person like in the original post, the partner should be informed before sexual activity, but only so everyone is aware of what is going to happen under the duvet so to speak.

So to answer the OP's question, it is neither illegal nor wrong and fuck you if you think it is either.

Title	Is this illegal or just wrong?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	0
Comments	43
Date	June 8, 2012 3:22 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/uqzh1/is_this_illegal_or_just_wrong/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/is-this-illegal-or-just-wrong.1020204 https://theredarchive.com/post/1020204

Comments