~ archived since 2018 ~

OBAMACARE UPHELD

[deleted]

June 28, 2012

15 upvotes

/r/MensRights

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/health-care-law-supreme-court-decision-live-blog/

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Post Information

Title	OBAMACARE UPHELD
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	15
Comments	38
Date	June 28, 2012 2:19 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vqp67/obamacare_upheld/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/obamacare-upheld.1018950 https://theredarchive.com/post/1018950

Comments

[–]CedMon 10 points11 points12 points 14 years ago* (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]mythin 8 points9 points10 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]mythin 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]mythin 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThePigman -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -15 points-14 points-13 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

The typical liberal dismissal of GOP propaganda?

You know, like the typical liberal dismissal of an attitude that considers profit to be a greater good than human rights?
Like the typical liberal dismissal of the conspiracy theory mindset that makes conservatives discount alarm over global warming?
Like the typical liberal dismissal of the conservative-fueled racist policies of the deep south?

The problem is mostly in education and perhaps even genetics. As cognitive studies have shown, fear is what drives the conservative electorate, and fear is what often drives it to act like a cornered animal. They can be a nasty, violent group of people (my cold dead hands!!).

All in all, the USA progresses in spite of conservative voters, and not because of them. Just study our history, I dare you. In fact, I suggest the following: Instead of calling it "intellectually inadequate", consider it "disgusted at the moral standards."

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

To the contrary, Jonathan Haidt shows in his book The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion that conservatives have a more complex and complete system of moral reasoning than liberals do. Because the moral tools that conservatives use is a superset of those used by liberals, conservatives understand liberal arguments much better than liberals understand conservative arguments. Your reply above is a good illustration of a liberal who doesn't understand the rudiments of conservative thought.

Classic conservatives see the need to balance profits with human rights, but believe the profit motive is an essential ingredient to a fair and just society. It provides a motive to work and contribute to society because it rewards the productive while discouraging free riders. And the free-rider problem is a central weakness of liberal ideology. It is why most socialist societies have either stagnated or collapsed economically.

They can be a nasty, violent group of people (my cold dead hands!!).

The irony of this type of this type of hyperbolic name-calling is probably lost on you, but it made me laugh.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Cherry picked literature. And, recall what John Stuart Mill said about Conservatism: That it tends to attract really stupid people to its ranks.

And, mind you: The idiot contingent of the US electorate, I am not defining them as the book reading contingent of the US electorate.

You really ought to address the points I have raised. Is this "complex and complete system of moral reasoning" the underlying theme that has driven the GOP strongholds (the same ones that used to be democratic - I do not associate party affiliattions with anything) to:

adopt pro-slavery attitudes,
anti-intellectual stances that fly in the face of reality,
subtle white supremacist viewpoints,
mindless militarism and fascist leanings

What is it in that book that explains these observations away? And no, I am not asking you to point at what is going on in the conservative ivory towers. The problem is not there, as Conservatism has a long and hallowed intellectual history. But that is not what is at issue here, and you alluding to this is either a misreading of my original post, or something like a straw man attack at the concept I raised.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm certainly not going to defend everything that's called conservatism in the USA! I agree with your objections to the list of things you mention here.

What is it in that book that explains these observations away?

Haidt shows how most moral reasoning is actually based on emotional and intuitive responses, with reason primarily providing a plausible rationalization after the fact. It's a useful perspective for understanding the politics of both ends of the spectrum. When presented with a position that doesn't make sense, find the emotional or intuitive perception that motivated it.

The list you mention here appear to fall under the categories of group loyalty and authority, two principles often used by conservatives but infrequently by liberals. Haidt's argument is not that these principles always lead to correct moral reasoning (as your examples show) but that they are essential elements in a moral society. (Haidt is a liberal, btw.)

I have also seen research that indicated liberals have a higher IQ than conservatives on average. I can believe that, given what I've heard on talk radio. But I find the arguments of the smartest conservatives to be as compelling as those of the smartest liberals, and occasionally more so.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Patrick5555 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]altmehere 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HouseKoumoray3 points 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ghebert001 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]babno 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Dranosh 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]verkohlen 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Dranosh -8 points-7 points-6 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]CedMon 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]eggilicious 14 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

And thats why american society is one of the most fucked up in the world. You are a nation of undereducated idiots who all think you know whats best

[–]AvgGuy101 -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Celda -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AnthonyZarat[🍰] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[+]eggilicious 14 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm not American and I havent been following the Obamacare story closely so could someone explain what this has to do with male rights?

[–]AnthonyZarat[🍰] -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]shady8x 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThePigman 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AvgGuy101 -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]genuinemra -5 points-4 points-3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link