Problem with MRAs [X-post from Redpill]

unexpecteditem · 2014-02-18T11:38:04+00:00

The post is trifling nonsense. It is precisely because men are viewed as big, bad sex monsters that do sex to innocent women who don't want it and just allow men to have some sex in exchange for provision and protection that rape of women is huge, rape of men is nothing, and false allegations are so readily believed.

Deansdale · 2014-02-18T12:56:48+00:00

It's fascinating how everyone around here talks about silly nonsense while carefully avoiding the valid point of this criticism. Whoever wrote this post is perfectly right in that:

We can't and shouldn't fight biology,
We shouldn't adopt feminine debating/lobbying methods,
We shouldn't try to fight for the pity of society or a new victim card.

This should be mandatory reading in the MRM.

TRPACC · 2014-02-18T11:01:04+00:00

Not a well thought out post, before shaving men didn't find women women attractive? Illogical nonsense.

Catacronik · 2014-02-18T11:22:14+00:00

ALL MEN MUST BE MANLY BURLY MEN. HURR GENDER ROLES AND NORMS.

Just because evolution-wise we developed like this, doesn't mean it applies to the modern age. Evolution is slow to change and adapt. So there might be a point if we were still living in an age where advantages of the sexes made a big difference on survival of the species. However, this is not the case, clearly. So why should we adhere to what worked in a bygone era? We can afford to do whatever we desire due to natural selection not being a factor (or at least, less of one).

YetAnotherCommenter · 2014-02-18T11:01:33+00:00

The biggest parallel I'm seeing is the annoying tendency to ignore biological reality in the interests of "social justice."

There is a reason househusbands are not viewed favorably: men did not evolve to maintain the hearth while women went out to provide. It's like it's lost on most readers that their sub is complaining about feminism causing research repression while at the same time, they're ignoring the research in question. Just as the urban manatees on Tumblr can't force people to find fat or female body hair attractive, omega males can't force women to respect their role as househusband; it's just not in either of our natures.

Men's rights should focus on equality of opportunity, stopping abuses, and ending de jure double standards. This nonsense of complaining about higher expectations of us in war, sports, and industry and complaining about how their choice to forgo the role of the breadwinner deserves respect has got to stop. Just as we expect females to act like women (for better or worse), males should act like men - whether or not it is convenient.

I get really frustrated when people use evolutionary psychology/biology to argue for complete non-sequiturs.

First, evolution =/= morality.

Second, evolutionary biology does not produce discrete categories but rather overlapping spectra (examples: trans and intersex people, as well as gender-nonconformists of both sexes). Categorization is a product of the human process of abstraction.

Third, if gender roles were biologically determined, why does our society engage in so much gender-deviance as well as so much gender-policing? If gender roles were biologically determined, there'd be a hell of a lot less of both of these phenomena.

Fourth, no one is trying to force anyone to do anything or to like anything. We're trying to persuade people that everyone's non-violent choices are permissible and should be respected as acts of individual choice (not necessary as morally equivalent, nor sexually desirable), even if they're gender-nonconforming.

Fifth, the entire thing about house-husbandry is an attempt to end de jure double standards in the first place.

Sixth, the simple fact is the entire argument being proposed is nothing more than a biological rationalization of Platonism. "Men should act like men" only makes sense as a moral command when you accept a Platonic metaphysics/epistemology. And using biology to justify Plato? Plato believed ideals existed up in heaven for fuck's sake... trying to justify this with biology is simply stupid.

2014-02-18T11:40:43+00:00

As for myself, I'm do not advocate men's rights to go back to the times of 1950 and before. For me, it means achieving the same freedom women did a few decades ago.

sillymod · 2014-02-18T13:28:50+00:00

This is not relevant to this subreddit. Perhaps it would be more relevant in a sub like /r/TheRedPill?

Seriously, though. What TRP thinks of this subreddit is as relevant as what /r/Feminism thinks of this subreddit.

rightsbot · 2014-02-18T10:48:16+00:00

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itchybrain · 2014-02-18T13:23:41+00:00

Contradictory opinion. You can't with the one hand say "freedom and opportunity for everyone" and then with the other hand condone the public shaming of men and women (essentially a form of punishment/bullying) who don't conform to the gender roles. I'd like to add that it takes huge balls as a man to be a house husband precisely because such narrow minded and shitty people in society like this red piller exist. I really don't like that confused and immature sub infecting Mens rights. We don't deny scientific evidence but we don't make naturalistic fallacies either.

imbecile · 2014-02-18T12:28:40+00:00

Oh, histroically there were of a lot of men living on their own and managing their own household. From armies to monastaries to hermits, pretty much all frontier and explorer situations: it's always men living without women and still being able to take care of the menial daily chores with no problem.

And if you just consider how frequently women just died during pregnancy and in childbirth, men raising children by themselves were no rarity in the least either. It's actually kind of a staple in Grimm's fairy tales, to give you an idea of how common it was.

So, there is nothing unmanly about men doing housekeeping work and raising a family.

The only thing probably is that a lot of women are probably less attracted to men who are fully capable of living without a woman, because those men tend to be less inclined to put up with any bullshit.

Title	Problem with MRAs [X-post from Redpill]
Author	lillojohn
Upvotes	0
Comments	73
Date	February 18, 2014 10:47 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/1y8ddl/problem-with-mras-x-post-from-redpill/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/problem-with-mras-x-post-from-redpill.1614739 https://theredarchive.com/post/1614739

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