Questions about MRA

dejour · 2014-08-10T18:36:35+00:00

It's more complicated than women have it better or men have it better.

Basically sexism is bidirectional. Society advantages men in some ways and society advantages women in other ways.

Often these things are inter-related. For instance we see men as more capable and responsible and agentic. This means that we are more likely to want men to lead countries or companies or armies. But it also means that we are more likely to put male criminals in prison for longer. We are less likely to help a homeless man than a homeless woman. We expect men to put themselves in dangerous situations to protect their families.

If you want to solve sexism you need to address sexism against both men and women.

BTW, I think this is the majority opinion among MRAs, but there are definitely some MRAs who think that men are oppressed much more than women.

phengineer · 2014-08-10T18:10:42+00:00

The sidebar is a wealth of information------------>

I don't like to play Oppression Olympics. Men have issues, women have issues. Men's issues are not addressed generally, and are frequently exacerbated by feminists. Ergo, I'm an MRA.

lordslag · 2014-08-10T18:10:25+00:00

Oh good, I get to be the first post. Thanks for coming to us open handed, and open minded, genuinely seeking the truth. That's rare, and valuable. So, I'll start at the beginning. Yes, women do have more rights then men. Just VAWA for example. "Tender Years Doctrine" in "Family" Courts that basically state that mothers are necessary parents and men aren't, so women most often get custody. Women get all their rights without having to register to be drafted in the US. It goes on for a long time. I have compiled a list of inequalities that I believe most MRAs will agree with me on. It's copypasta because my fingers are merely mortal, so any heat it may seem to contain is NOT directed at you.

The Paper Abortion for Men. Is it okay to force a woman to be a parent because a pregnancy occurs? No. Therefore the same for men.

Equal Parenting Laws. 50% automatically assumed custody is self evidently equal.

Eliminating, or forcing women to sign up for, the draft.

Gender Equal Sentencing Laws

Gender Equal Funding Laws

Gender Equal Physical Requirements Laws

Elimination of VAWA for it's violation of men's 14th Amendment Rights.

Elimination of the pay gap myth. Take into account all factors rather than just all full time men's and women's wages, which is laughably simplistic, and the gap disappears.

Gender Equal Divorce Laws and Enforcement

Anonymity for the Accused Laws If the rape accuser is anonymous, so is the accused.

Men's Studies courses in all Universities, or the Elimination of Women's Studies

Men's Domestic Violence and Abuse Shelters

Right to Genital Integrity for Male Babies. If they were chopping off 20% of the nerve endings in every vulva, there would be an uproar. Babies can't consent to permanent sexual alteration, regardless if it helps prevent infections or not.

Stop medicating boys in schools. Boys aren't defective, the system is.

Stop painting all men as potential rapists/child molesters. "Teach men not to rape." Like all men are rapists and must be taught otherwise. How about "Teach women not to be golddiggers." See how both contain sexist premises?

I hope this wall of text helps clarify that we stand for equity, where that equity needs be addressed, and that we're not misogynists who want to rape women. XD

Chad_Nine · 2014-08-10T22:52:16+00:00

I'm going to say that men have less legal rights than women. Genital mutilation (circumcision) being a glaring example of how women are protected by law, and men are not. Now, I think a lot of inequality is due to societies views of gender, dejour pointed that out very well. We see men as responsible, and so we give them responsibility, regardless of whether it's actually warranted or not. The sentencing gap is a great example of that. Or look at how "Teach men not to rape" assumes that men are rapists unless taught otherwise. I also take issue with the feminist dogma that men as a class oppressed and are oppressing women as a class. This is a piss poor interpretation of how gender roles affected people. The rich and powerful oppressed people, men and women. That men had authority and responsibility for their familes is recast as "patriarchy theory", where men got all the power and women were just like slaves. Y'know, men never loved their wives and children, they kept them like livestock. rolls eyes So there's a lot of criticism towards feminism from MRA types, because feminism avails itself of these bigoted stereotypes to push their political agendas. We need a frank and honest appraisal of sexism, and feminism is a major obstacle in making that happen. That is why you'll see a lot of criticism towards feminism. That turned into a rant. I think there is sexism, but I also think that there's a lot of misinformation, exaggeration and obsfucation over how much of a problem it is, and the nature of the problem.

MattClark0995 · 2014-08-11T00:17:34+00:00

I do believe men face more issues than women. Here is a 22,000 word list that does a good job of proving that. In addition, women have literally hundreds of Federal level programs dedicated to them, most being in areas where they are already doing far better than men.

oneiorosgripwontstfu · 2014-08-10T20:18:18+00:00

This comment might offer some insight, though it's not specific to the movement. It does reference ways in which men are oppressed.

Some of the things the commenter mentions are societal issues; others are caused or exacerbated by feminist lobbying for laws and government funding of feminist initiatives. When confronted with these issues, feminists often dismiss them by attributing men or masculinity as the cause.

From what I've seen a lot of the conflict between men's rights advocates and feminists has to do with differences in the two groups' generally supported opinions for what constitutes a right, what constitutes discrimination, what constitutes oppression, and what constitutes equality. I wrote my thoughts on that in a post for mensrights.ca.

questionnmark · 2014-08-11T01:18:50+00:00

Essentially the reason why we are here is because men don't have a group advocating for their needs the same way that women do, and there is also a need to provide a counter argument to the way that the gender discourse is dominated almost completely by feminists who espouse only their views on the way society is structured along gender lines.

The mens rights movement itself is an extremely varied one at this point. There are a wide range of ideological and personal reasons why people participate in this movement that range from traditionalism all the way to libertarianism. We also represent a wide range of political views as well with left and right wing people participating here.

oneiorosgripwontstfu · 2014-08-11T01:52:51+00:00

This comment might offer some insight, though it's not specific to the movement. It does reference ways in which men are oppressed.

Some of the things the commenter mentions are societal issues; others are caused or exacerbated by feminist lobbying for laws and government funding of feminist initiatives. When confronted with these issues, feminists often dismiss them by attributing men or masculinity as the cause.

From what I've seen a lot of the conflict between men's rights advocates and feminists has to do with differences in the two groups' generally supported opinions for what constitutes a right, what constitutes discrimination, what constitutes oppression, and what constitutes equality. I wrote my thoughts on that in a post for mensrights.ca.

redgreenyellowblu · 2014-08-11T07:12:58+00:00

Since others addressed your question about which gender has more rights, I will discuss this statement you made:

"Although I'll admit, MRA seems a bit more sound to me, less shouting '' Sexist, sexist '' at anyone who disagrees on the slightest issue. "

This to me is the most offensive thing about feminism from my perspective. Whether I agreed with their goals or not, I absolutely abhor any movement that resorts to name calling and bullying and fear tactics and that thinks so little of logic and reason. If it goes further it will be like China during the Cultural Revolution. This alone is enough to put me off feminism. If the men's rights movement ever turned the same way I would oppose it as vigorously.

MRSPArchiver · 2014-08-10T17:57:38+00:00

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Bla34112 · 2014-08-11T01:02:07+00:00

It is more complicated than that, yes.

My view is that no gender has oppressed the other, society has simply assigned rights and responsibilities (gender roles) to each gender in a way that made society work. Advantaging or disadvantaging one gender or the other was never the point, the point was to survive and to prosper. Different societies were very much subject to social evolution in this regard. Societies whose gender roles where inefficient simply vanished. What some would call 'Patriarchy' became the dominant model this way.

Now, I'm not gonna deny that there probably are some issues that affect women more than men, but legally in the US at least, men do have less rights then women. When it comes to paternity and divorce, rights to a fair trial, incarceration rates, the selective service, etc... in those cases at least women do clearly have an advantage.

DougDante · 2014-08-11T01:35:57+00:00

Welcome!

So you personally, do you think that women have straight up more rights than men or do you like me, think it's more complicated than that?

It's complicated.

Please look at the FAQ.

Flareprime · 2014-08-11T01:47:25+00:00

Women have more rights, and their rights supercede men's rights.

Arakin · 2014-08-11T02:43:19+00:00

Women do have straight up more rights. Name me a right that men have that women do not have in this country, as this young man says.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVszeRjvcAc&list=UUe9Wf70NeHSXg2hwxZQJOIA

2014-08-11T13:46:35+00:00

MRA is a reaction to feminism that started when men increasingly started notice how they were getting screwed and have nothing to show for. firstly it tackles fallacious behavior by feminists and institutions towards men in general after that it also deals with societal conditioning against men and boys that predates feminism.

MRA is grass roots movement while feminism is an offshoot of various marxist schools of thought in general, thus mra had much harder time really doing anything, and was put up to blame for anything in the media thats staffed with power conscious feminists.

Title	Questions about MRA
Author	furoggu_sutteto
Upvotes	17
Comments	27
Date	August 10, 2014 5:57 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2d5ubo/questions_about_mra/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/questions-about-mra.997117 https://theredarchive.com/post/997117

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