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"There are zero programs to help young men get out of prostitution. I pray someday there will be."

notnotnotfred

February 2, 2014

135 upvotes

/r/MensRights

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Post Information

Title	"There are zero programs to help young men get out of prostitution. I pray someday there will be."
Author	notnotnotfred
Upvotes	135
Comments	16
Date	February 2, 2014 12:25 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/1wrmpa/there-are-zero-programs-to-help-young-men-get-out-/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/there-are-zero-programs-to-help-young-men-get-out.1614313 https://theredarchive.com/post/1614313

Comments

[–]The_Cockpit9 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]The_Cockpit5 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Is this representative of your experience?

Not at all, I would describe it as you had... Non-abusive but psychologically draining although you don't realise how much at first (in my experience it didn't kick in until about the 15 month point.)

Here's a pretty good overview I wrote a while ago (sorry the hyperlink trick isn't working)

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1my3yd/prostitutes_say_they_enjoy_their_lives/cce29t9

I found the clients quite respectful, and we did have some powerful men (e.g directors, politicians). In general they didn't want power over us they just wanted some fun and affection. I worked in a up market brothel though and know the street was a little more perilous.

What's your view on criminalisation/decriminalisation?

In my country it is legal and I think lessens the incidence of this type of story. If clients were abusing boys in a brothel, they get blacklisted... It's that simple. The closest thing we have to illegal is street work and yeah it's a battle that many don't survive.

That said I don't believe sex work should ever been seen as a legitimate occupation. It's something people need to do at certain times in their lives (both clients and workers I guess) and while they should be protected it should not be encouraged due to the psychological toll it can take.

he should not be in a situation in the first place where that was his only option.

A lot of people get in a whole host of situations that they have "no other options". They do though. Do shit you don't agree with to survive or die. It's a choice, albeit not a great one in some cases. I guess I'm a little callous on this topic.

He describes his interaction with his clients as having been raped.

I don't agree with that all but I find this hard to answer because I was always in control (except 1 time I was drugged). I didn't have a pimp (brothel managers were always very respectful) and was confident in my physical prowess so clients knew where the boundaries were and what would happen if they crossed them. If I weren't as physically capable I might've felt otherwise. I can say this though... You'd never EVER let any client tie you up.

[–][deleted]2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Thanks for your reply.

That said I don't believe sex work should ever been seen as a legitimate occupation. It's something people need to do at certain times in their lives (both clients and workers I guess) and while they should be protected it should not be encouraged due to the psychological toll it can take.

Is treating it as a legitimate occupation the same as encouraging it? I only ask because I've seen some material from sex workers complaining that their rights as workers aren't taken seriously because they're somewhat "dirty" when it comes to unions and such. They found the view that they were victims that needed to be helped troublesome.

A lot of people get in a whole host of situations that they have "no other options". They do though. Do shit you don't agree with to survive or die. It's a choice, albeit not a great one in some cases. I guess I'm a little callous on this topic.

No worries, that said, I can see how a kid who just got kicked out of home might see it that way though.

I don't agree with that all but I find this hard to answer because I was always in control (except 1 time I was drugged).

Yikes, sorry to hear that.

I can say this though... You'd never EVER let any client tie you up.

Yeah, being a pro-sub is a whole other ballgame imho. I've heard of a few, but I gather they play it very safe and require alot of references etc.

Edit: I just read your description, and I know it's going to sound crazy, but that's exactly how I felt when I was working in the service industry, only scaled up to 10,000% (obviously nowhere near as bad as you had it). Maybe there's something innate about being paid to serve someone else which creates some kind of disconnect with the rest of humanity?

[–]The_Cockpit2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Is treating it as a legitimate occupation the same as encouraging it?

Yes and I don't think it should be treated that way. Sex work is a job, not a career but the problem is it's a little too easy to get sucked in. Reintegration into society is tough, and gets tougher the longer you do it. Is it ever going to be acceptable to put sex worker on your resume? Probably not, but I don't see that as a bad thing. I don't think anyone becomes a sex worker without being a little off regardless of whether they realise it or not and it just adds to the psyche issues that you already have.

The conditions here are good (pay scales, protection, specialised health care, regulations, rostering etc) but the occupation will always be semi-legitimate. In my view it should be because it reminds you that you can't do it forever.

Yikes, sorry to hear that

To be honest I was pretty fucking stupid to let it happen. I was a veteran by then (it was my very last job, ever) and should've been more careful. All that resulted was I was raped without a condom... It was tense waiting for the aids test but as it came back clean, I got lucky.

Yeah, being a pro-sub is a whole other ballgame imho.

I had a couple of jobs like this, but always had "trick cuffs". I was cool playing the part as long as I knew I could get out of that situation in an instant.

Edit in response to yours. Interesting. What exactly did you do, if you don't mind me asking?

[–][deleted]2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The conditions here are good (pay scales, protection, specialised health care, regulations, rostering etc) but the occupation will always be semi-legitimate. In my view it should be because it reminds you that you can't do it forever.

Since you mention it, have you heard of the suit being pressed against the dutch government to allow sex-workers to avail of pension rights aimed at sports players? Sports players in the netherlands can save money at extra discounted tax rates (up to a certain amount per year) out of recognition that their job has a time limit, the idea being that they can live off their pension while they're retraining for their second career.

I had a couple of jobs like this, but always had "trick cuffs". I was cool playing the part as long as I knew I could get out of that situation in an instant.

That's sensible. And I assume someone knew where you were/who you were with in case things went wrong?

Interesting. What exactly did you do, if you don't mind me asking?

Oh nothing like sex work, just bar work. Most of the time it was pretty quiet, but on a busy night I'd be the only floor staff in a bar with 200+ patrons... which got a little tense. The stuff you said about "not relating to civilians" sounds pretty familiar, we used to have a phrase "customers aren't people" when trying to understand how people act towards service staff. That, and I think people have a limited amount of "nice" at their disposal, it's possible to use it up. Not that I actually wanted to murder anyone or anything, it wasn't that bad, but if I felt that way just bowing and scraping while I carried drinks around I can only imagine what it must have been like if I'd been required to have sex with them too. I did get groped a couple of times (one while being verbally abused by another customer) but nothing terribly serious. I did sortof enjoy the pressure and the veteran status when we got through a crazy night, but I'm glad I'm not doing it anymore at the same time. I know people who've done that kind of work for years and it seems to leave them a bit dried out, the only time they really light up is when they're around other service staff.

[–]The_Cockpit1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

have you heard of the suit being pressed against the dutch government to allow sex-workers to avail of pension rights aimed at sports players?

I have not. It seems a little odd to me because sex workers here aren't taxed. I'd have to read up on it, but it seems reasonable given that prostitution is such a key part of their culture (from an outsider view anyway - I will admit I know very little about the Netherlands.) and why the hell should millionaire soccer players get that benefit and no one else.

I assume someone knew where you were/who you were with in case things went wrong?

Actually not often. I had a friend who demanded I call her and do that stuff, but I only used it once.

bar work.

I thought so because that was the only service job that I can see as comparable. I'm assuming your American and if you are your living relies on you being extra nice, even if you hate a person. You might relate to this... Whenever I'd say goodbye to a client, if give them a warm kiss, close the door then scowl and shake my head as I walked toward the shower. Also I'd imagine you'd become quite familiar with peoples sexual depravity which is similar and in my case made people far less endearing.

[–][deleted]1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I have not. It seems a little odd to me because sex workers here aren't taxed. I'd have to read up on it, but it seems reasonable given that prostitution is such a key part of their culture (from an outsider view anyway - I will admit I know very little about the Netherlands.) and why the hell should millionaire soccer players get that benefit and no one else.

I don't think it's culturally that dissimilar to any other part of western europe in terms of prostitution, they just have more of an aversion to the government telling people what to do. Sex workers operate businesses like anyone else, so they get taxed. Quite heavily too apparently since they make so much money, but it doesn't last, so they want the right to save up a tax free nest egg, which seems reasonable.

Actually not often. I had a friend who demanded I call her and do that stuff, but I only used it once.

Fair enough, I'm sure you're sensible enough to provide for your own safety :)

I thought so because that was the only service job that I can see as comparable. I'm assuming your American and if you are your living relies on you being extra nice, even if you hate a person.

Irish actually, and we got paid regardless of tips. Minimum wage naturally, but it was enough for me at the time to rent a flat and buy all the rest of my stuff, I actually live off less now than I did then. The tips weren't even that good, I made €50 one night, which was amazing, but that's about average for the food staff. The food staff made alot more, female food staff even more so, but they preferred to put the male staff on at night so I ended up being trained for floorwork/backbar/barstaff and all the rest. That said, if we weren't nice to the customers our job was on the line, like any other bar.

There was only a few customers I really hated, most of them were actually quite nice. The non-regulars could be a bit snobby, but you get used to that. Of the regulars there were a few that were just a bit rude, not just to me, but to everyone, but the staff had to humour them. The one really bad one had grown up in a big house with lots of servants, so that was how he treated us. He was disabled too (which, of course, I've no problem with) but we had to do extra things for him to help him use the bathrooms, which was made even worse by the fact that he didn't wash. He treated the staff like unpaid care-assistants/footmen, even when we were busy and going out of our way to do special favours for him. He had been barred before for throwing food he didn't like at the staff, but someone decided to let him back in at one point.

Whenever I'd say goodbye to a client, if give them a warm kiss, close the door then scowl and shake my head as I walked toward the shower. Also I'd imagine you'd become quite familiar with peoples sexual depravity which is similar and in my case made people far less endearing.

Yeah... there's people I don't even want to think of doing that for :/ Glad to hear you got out of it though.

[–]Arakin3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]McFeely_Smackup3 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Indigoh2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]2 points 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]IS441 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]quantumfox641 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Clauderoughly1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]carniemechanic1 point 12 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link