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Jeremy_Savilla
[–]TC1827 96 points97 points98 points 7 years ago (43 children) | Copy Link
It doesn't give the full picture.
The truth is that men are socially pressured into STEM as men are societally still expected to be the breadwinners and get high paying jobs. While women can pursue STEM if they like, or take general Arts / Sciences courses, or simply explore their interests, and still find a partner. And even if a woman is a professional she is under no obligation to be a breadwinner
[–][deleted] 7 years ago* (41 children) | Copy Link
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[–]EricAllonde 18 points19 points20 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Furthermore, stem fields are often a boys club.
The only two STEM fields where the percentage of women is still well below 50% are engineering and software development. All the other STEM fields have more than 40% women.
Once upon a time, every professional field was a "boys club". That didn't stop women flooding into law, medicine, veterinary science, maths, business, all of the humanities, architecture and every other field - except for engineering and software development.
Gee, it's almost as if... most women just aren't interested in engineering and software development. Hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent trying to persuade women to enter these career, with no success.
At some point we should accept that women just aren't interested and stop nagging them to choose these fields.
And we should immediately stop whining that men are sexist & misogynistic just because women are displaying preferences in their career choices that feminists disapprove of.
[–]pssandwich -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
First of all, do you have a source for this claim? I doubt it's true for e.g. physics. Second, how are you measuring this? By number of bachelor's degrees awarded in each field? This can be deceptive too: women make up well over 40% of math majors, but the vast majority of those women go into education, and more of the men go on to do graduate study in mathematics.
I guess you're justified in going by percentage of bachelor's degrees awarded based on the image in the OP though.
[–]SirYouAreIncorrect 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
but the vast majority of those women go into education
by their choice, not because of sexism....
[–]pssandwich 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yeah. I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I'm just trying to give some extra context to EricAllande's statistic.
[–]DignifiedAlpaca 25 points26 points27 points 7 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link
I'm growing weary of all the misogynist memes thrown around in the name of men's rights.
How is this a misogynistic meme?
Furthermore, stem fields are often a boys club. There is a reason why women don't choose to "sign up". This stupid shit doesn't mean anything.
And fair enough that it could be intimidating for someone to sign up for a STEM class if they are worried that they might be the only woman in the class. But would you also say that majors like art or gender studies are a girls club then?
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Because it is a perfect example of a useless degree that has no economic value and provides only negative effects to wider society.
[–]DignifiedAlpaca 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Why do so many people have it out for gender studies anyway? Its not exactly all that relevant or big.
I would say that it is pretty relevant and big in the realm of politics because gender studies professors are often the ones coming up with a lot of the political ideas causing contention over gender issues. But I get what you mean though that it's not as big in terms of dollars. Just big in terms of political influence.
[–]DignifiedAlpaca 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I would say such people are likely the most qualified to do such things seeing as they they have a college level education on the matter.
I question the qualifications of the professors in those fields:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190610192018/https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/new-sokal-hoax/572212/
[+][deleted] -9 points-8 points-7 points 7 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
The same way people think this is misandrous.
It makes women look stupid. I don’t know why memes are allowed on this sub tbh
[–]TheJoestarDescendant 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
I guess this is indeed a bit ambiguous, but imo the message of this meme is that 'If you are a woman and want more women in STEM, take STEM yourself instead of gender studies'. This is targeted only to the hypocritical ones that enter gender studies but then cry how not enough women go to STEM. The nuance is different on the link you gave
Also idk what you've got against memes, but I see nothing wrong with memes. Memes are just another way to convey an idea or make a point.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
This is targeted only to the hypocritical ones that enter gender studies but then cry how not enough women go to STEM. The nuance is different on the link you gave
You’re right the link I gave is even more targeted to one individual rather than a whole group. Yes you can make the argument that it’s only for the “hypocritical” ones but every woman in the meme is looked as an idiot with the man looking as reasonable. At best it implies women are hypocrites. At worst it implies they’re too stupid and/or lazy for STEM
Yes but they’re a low effort way to poorly convey a point. It paints a broad brush on something that should be nuanced. Also rule 2 says no low effort posts and includes memes as an example.
[–]TheJoestarDescendant 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
the link I gave is even more targeted to one individual rather than a whole group.
Uh... mosquito landing on a man's cheek can happen to any man. But actually in that link after looking at it again the problem with that one is how there would be outrage if the genders were flipped. That post itself is not problematic but the double standard is - to me anyway; tho there are indeed some ppl in this sub that are so oversensitive they are like the MRA version of SJW feminists
but every woman in the meme is looked as an idiot with the man looking as reasonable.
Yeah this is why I said this is a bit ambiguous. The meme can do a better job by probably including one woman signing up to the STEM. The three women represent the modern feminists when I first saw it tho but meh your pov is fair enough.
Yes but they’re a low effort way to poorly convey a point. It paints a broad brush on something that should be nuanced. Also rule 2 says no low effort posts and includes memes as an example
I wouldn't say memes are necessarily low effort and poorly convey a point. Sometimes memes can be high effort and accurate although simple. I suppose memes are like a quick way to convey a point to get people interested; detailed explanations can come later. But if rule 2 actually includes memes as example then a'ight... Maybe the mods forgot that rule existed, maybe the mods don't see it as a meme, maybe like me some mods see the rule as unreasonable and ignore it, idk.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Uh... mosquito landing on a man's cheek can happen to any man.
Sure but she’s talking about her husband. I think you’re splitting hairs at this point. If she said it about her friends I don’t think there would be outrage if a man said it about his (male) friends I don’t think there would be outrage.
there would be outrage if the genders were flipped. That post itself is not problematic but the double standard is
I agree that there’s a double standard and it shouldn’t exist. I was going to go into a longer explanation, but if we’re basically on the same page here it’s fine. My point wasn’t that one meme is worse than the other, just that they both could be seen as sexist.
I wouldn't say memes are necessarily low effort and poorly convey a point. Sometimes memes can be high effort and accurate although simple. I suppose memes are like a quick way to convey a point to get people interested; detailed explanations can come later.
Sure in a best case scenario, but you know people don’t always provide that extra context and can easily take away a skewed view of the meme “true message” if it even is trying to be deep. A meme can describe something simply, but there’s no way it’s enough alone. Even if you think it’s accurate the topic is too broad to be condensed like that.
But if rule 2 actually includes memes as example then a'ight... Maybe the mods forgot that rule existed, maybe the mods don't see it as a meme, maybe like me some mods see the rule as unreasonable and ignore it, idk.
Those are all explanations, but those are just bad explanations. Maybe they forgot? That’s not a reason for the sub to devolve into what it is. If they thought it was an unreasonable rule they would change it. Imo they want to have their cake and eat it too. They want the popularity a meme can give them, but what the appearance of legitimacy. I don’t know what you think about the rest of reddit, but imagine if /r/news or /r/politics allowed memes to be posted instead of article. It would be a total shit show.
[–]TheJoestarDescendant 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Seems we have reached a middle ground here except for the last part:
A meme can describe something simply, but there’s no way it’s enough alone. Even if you think it’s accurate the topic is too broad to be condensed like that.
Well the purpose of a meme is to raise attention first. This one, I believe is enough to bring attention to the issue of feminists from gender "studies" crying for more women in STEM, despite not going to STEM themselves. Tho yeah I guess this can be taken out of context; which can be prevented with slight modification.
If they thought it was an unreasonable rule they would change it. Imo they want to have their cake and eat it too. They want the popularity a meme can give them, but what the appearance of legitimacy.
I believe they should, but idk. Wouldn't jump into that conclusion tho
imagine if /r/news or /r/politics allowed memes to be posted instead of article. It would be a total shit show.
Dunno about you mate, but they are already shit show to me - maybe because I lean right. Politics especially claims to want civil discussion but calls for violence against people on the right are regular. It's so bad the sub r/ShitPoliticsSays is a thing.
Also dear other people, don't downvote people that are willing to have civil discussion please?
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Dunno about you mate, but they are already shit show to me - maybe because I lean right. Politics especially claims to want civil discussion but calls for violence against people on the right are regular.
Yeah I had a feeling that you would have said something like that (they’re already bad!), but you really don’t think having memes would make it worse? I guess your opinion that they should change the rule gives me an answer I just strongly disagree. I’m fine with memes in a meme subreddit. If you want to bring positive attention from outsiders memes aren’t the way to do it. Yes memes can be edited to be “more accurate” but at that point you’re looking for a needle in a haystack. Then you have to make judgement calls for what meme is appropriate vs what is just blatant racism/sexism. Memes are “sexy” but it just breeds a circle jerk rather than real discussion like this sub used to claim to be.
Appreciate that, but I’ve come to expect it. Honestly I’m surprised when my comments don’t get downvoted here or I get a fair conversation like we’ve had so far. I usually only comment when I think the post or comment is BS and no one has tried to call the person out. (Not saying you’re full of bs but the guy who got heavily downvoted didn’t really explain why the meme could be sexist). Honestly I think a lot of times this subreddit is a circle jerk and the meme culture feeds into that. Not always, but I think the bigger the sub has gotten and the lack of moderation (The first two rules aren’t always followed) is what caused it. /r/mensrants is a thing. Why not keep those things there?
I see you lean right so my instincts say you’re a Dio descendant, but the rest of this convo makes me think you have a little Joestar blood in you ;)
[–]DignifiedAlpaca 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I didn't interpret this post the way that you did, but I at least see where you're coming from now. The fact that the only man in the image is the reasonable one and the women are all acting unreasonably can plausibly lead a person who views the image to think that it is meant to be some kind of a knock on women.
I don't personally think that is what the artist who made it intended, but in the current political environment where people actually are making hurtful statements like that, it pays to be extra cautious sometimes to make sure that the messages we put out can't be accidentally misinterpreted.
[–]SirYouAreIncorrect 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It is, why is it. Reverse the genders
A Mosquito just landed on my wifes face.... Easiest decision of my life
Ohh that is right Domestic Violence is only funny if it is women hitting the man....
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I’m not saying the mosquito post isn’t sexist I’m saying both are.
I guess you’ve never heard of Family Guy, or the Honey Mooners...
[–]sffintaway 16 points17 points18 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
And nursing, HR, marketing, recruiting, and teaching are all women's clubs, but you don't hear women clamoring for more men in those fields.
The sad truth of it is, women want whatever men have, get it, and then when men move on or get pushed out, women then complain about those things too.
And the thing is, when a few nordic countries eliminated all barriers and let everyone choose based on their passions, the gender disparity in all these fields was even wider. It's almost as if men and women are inherently different.
[–]code124 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
STEM isn’t a club. It’s a set of classes/topics/subjects that are taught in high school and above. There are currently a significant amount of more girls than boys in my AP Computer Science, AP Calculus, and AP Physics classes. This is the same for every single school in my district. Girls have every single opportunity to take those classes, and they do, so stop complaining.
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
STEM is not a boys club. In my field women get 50% of degrees at the BS level.
[–]Quinnalicious21 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
While I don't completely agree with you, I like to see some people on this sub that don't completely fall into the hive mind and are willing to speak out if they don't agree with something and not just abide by groupthink. I apologize for the downvotes you are receiving.
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Imagine seeing the comic and then posting something this fucking stupid.
[–][deleted] 7 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
The comic just highlights that you people don't get it.
Has the possibility that you don't get it ever crossed whatever is left inside your skull? Think hard.
[–][deleted] 7 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I get what you think you see. I had your viewpoint when I was younger. I've shared memes like these before. Maybe get out of your bubble a little more and you'll develop a more complete worldview.
So that's a "no" I guess, carry on.
[–]jacksleepshere 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
lol shut up you gimp
[–]ralphswanson 24 points25 points26 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Complaining and criticizing is easier than working in a challenging field.
[–]goodmod[M] [score hidden] 7 years ago stickied comment (4 children) | Copy Link
Although this is a good post, the title does not say enough about its subject. This forces people to click and read before they can decide whether they are interested. It also makes searching impossible.
If everyone did this, the subreddit would become unusable. Moreover, it means that your post will fail to reach some readers because they won't know what it's about.
So please don't do it in future. Take the time to describe your link, and save the time of hundreds of other people.
When making a title, it's best to assume the reader doesn't know what you're talking about - but don't go overboard with every detail. Then check if there are any words you can cut out without losing any important information.
[–]Jeremy_Savilla[S] 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I'll try to make a longer subject next time
[–]loloLogic 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Also, it's been posted dozens of times in this sub, alone.
[–]goodmod 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thanks! :)
[–]akindaboiwantstohelp 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Username checks out.
[–]NibblyPig 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
The rest of this series is found here
[–]TC1827 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thanks!!
[–]chambertlo 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Accurate.
[–]L3tum 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
A much more interesting thing is actually a study that found out that every single STEM field has actually more women than men except IT. They're literally rallying against anything that men have
[–]TheRealStepBot -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Apparently you have never been to an engineering school, chemE, mechE, electricalE, all have massively more men that women.
STM maybe women outnumber men, but the E by and large continues to be hugely male dominated.
[–]__pulsar 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
That's exactly what they said...
[–]TheRealStepBot 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
That is definitely not exactly what they said.
Just to really help out your reading comprehension if you still not seeing the key phrase,
except IT.
Engineering and IT are not the same in any way shape or form.
[–]RampagingAardvark 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You're right, but you didn't have to be a dick about it.
[–]TheRealStepBot 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Personally I think that anyone that comments only a negation of a comment is not being constructive and a dick. If the entirety of what you have to contribute to the conversation is that you believe a comment was misread and two posters actually agree, then I think the onus is on you to at least double check to be sure that your trivial contribution is correct.
Despite that the possibility always exists of course that you can still screw it up and even though you double checked you still get it wrong. In light of this possibility I think that if you are going to make only a trivial contribution to a comment chain composed of non trivial positions then it’s probably worth injecting a modicum of humility and doubt into your trivial statement rather than preemptively doubling down on it through the use of modifiers like “exactly” or “precisely” etc
Good alternatives could have been something like, “unless I am missing something you are saying the same thing as the previous comment”
If you instead lead off with “I’m very sure you are wrong” expect to be corrected in no less certain terms.
[–]FaustoLG 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It is not, a lot of females did STEM and are now regarded for their discoveries and collaborations...
And NOBODY lowered the bar for them!
So, FemiNAZI gender studies animals can go FUCK THEMSELVES!
[–]Crocsim_the_Bastard 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Love the nice touch with the glasses...
[+]bungbitch -22 points-21 points-20 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
This sub is quickly becoming MGTOW 2.0
[–]Kyriios188 9 points10 points11 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Just go look MGTOW and you'll see how wrong that statement is
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