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Why Are Men Avoiding Marriage? A Reasonable Answer

Phil185

June 14, 2017
74 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.thephilanthrocapitalist.com/why-are-men-avoiding-marriage-a-reasonable-answer/
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Post Information
Title Why Are Men Avoiding Marriage? A Reasonable Answer
Author

Phil185

Upvotes 74
Comments 18
Date June 14, 2017 5:44 PM UTC
(9 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/6h94bi/why_are_men_avoiding_marriage_a_reasonable_answer/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-are-men-avoiding-marriage-a-reasonable-answer.920448
https://theredarchive.com/post/920448
Top posts by Phil185

"Just buy the damn blue razors."

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Why Are Men Avoiding Marriage? A Reasonable Answer

13 upvotes
June 14, 2017
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Comments

[–]Urishima 32 points33 points34 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

First women/feminism are repsonsible, then they aren't, then they are again, then not, then kinda...

This guy couldn't write his way out of a wet paper-bag.

[–]Phil185[S] 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the feedback. I'm probably just expecting the readership to take a closer look than they normally do (this is the internet, after all).

I'll clear it up a little: social issues are NEVER cause-and-effect. While feminism is probably the biggest contributor to falling marriage rates, it isn't solely to blame.

Consider this all in light of the last bullet point in the second list of possible factors, which I should've put closer to the top: "Others. A lot of others. Reducing any major social development to one cause is stupid."

Also, when I said, "But the problem is all of those things, and none of them," I probably could've made that bold.

[–]thrway_1000 17 points18 points19 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm going to say that its not a very good article as it doesn't really look at the issues. It's pretty shallow and the quote from the old man is pretty shitty and sexist. What about all the female "bums" that choose what they want to do with their time but are never referred to as "bums". Also, this assumes that being a wage slave in some way is more noble or that those movers and shakers aren't just scummy people that want power over other people. It never addresses the fact that most women do want to find someone and be together and that modern society is killing it with sexism, promoting selfishness, and laws that are biased and unfair. This article lacks any depth.

[–]Phil185[S] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the feedback, really.

I'm getting too used to throwing out shitty articles on that site because I don't get enough readers. Just goes to show I really should put more work into editing.

[–]ADCFeeder69 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because bitches be crazy

[–]B_P_G 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"are males and females any less attracted to one another?"

Honestly, yes. That is definitely part of the issue. I'm not going to dig up the CDC report right now but today's women are something like 30 pounds heavier than the women of a half century ago. Men are heavier too but not by that much. So basically in our society you have a lot of people who aren't physically attractive. Who is going to take on the tremendous financial risk of marriage to (in the best case scenario) spend the rest of their life with someone like that?

Now inevitably someone is going to reply that there's more to marriage than physical attraction. And that's true. But if you're not attracted to the person at all? I mean if you just think they're an interesting person to talk to then maybe you should arrange to have lunch with them once a month. If you're going to spend a third of your remaining years sleeping with this person then you have to be at least moderately attracted to them, right? And there are definitely people out there that I can't believe meet that standard in anyone's mind.

[–]ePants 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Phil, I'm assuming you're the author, based on your replies.

Is this supposed to be an article or a blog? If it's an article, the tone is far too casual/personal and reads more like a personal soap box than a serious analysis or conveyance of information. If it's a blog, its format and composition seem to be taking itself too seriously, as if formatting makes up for lack of structure and consistency.

In either case, the flow is horrible. Lots of back and forth with no clear direction. Even though an article or blog is going to have many small paragraphs, you need to remember that the basic structure of an essay is supposed to provide organization so the reader can understand where writing is coming from and where it is going. One point should lead to the next, without getting sidetracked into your inner monolog. Much of what you are trying to say gets lost in all the references to yourself and your own opinions, which are largely irrelevant when trying to make a case for something.

There were some decent points in there, but due to the confusing flow and weird identity crisis the article/blog seems to be going through, I'd personally never link anyone I know to it.

I apologize if this came across as too brutal, and I'm not trying to be discouraging. The world needs more people addressing these issues - hopefully at least some of this criticism can be considered constructive.

[–]Phil185[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

All feedback is constructive. Thanks.

I'm not going to defend any of my choices, because it's clearly badly structured if this many people have pointed that out. To be honest, it's a first draft. I didn't even proofread.

[–]Ontrus 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Tldr: The article is unimpressive and not worth your time.

[–]Phil185[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Anything you specifically didn't like about it? Or the same feeling as the others (lack of flow)?

Did you have any problems with the content, or just the structure?

Thanks.

[–]Phil185[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

MGTOW didn't like this, but I think it's reasonable.

[–]Halafax 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I thought the central gist (the effects hypergamy and homogamy have when gender demographics equalize) was reasonable, but I thought the writer largely ignored (or seemingly invalidated) other significant facets of the issue.

Beyond unreasonable divorce outcomes, men face negative bias in most dealings with authority. Between the "women are wonderful" effect and omnipresent demonization of men and male sexuality, the risk of any interaction with women becomes more fraught and less acceptable.

This crashes right into the second major issue, which is who is expected to initiate (and to a lesser extent, why?). That's still largely on men, but men are accumulating reasons not to do it. Or do it for a less vulnerable outcome (FWB vs relationship).

[+]rick-p points 9 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

I'm confused why mgtow wouldn't like this?

[–]PillTheRed 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Because the issue is really simple and they don't seem to get, and constantly try to confuse the issue. The reason men are dropping out of marriage, divorce is incentivized for women. Since no fault divorce became a thing, men have been taken to the cleaners over and over. You can only divorce rape so many people, before they start talking to their family and friends. If a kid sees his dad get divorced, and have everything taken from him. Do you think that kid is going to be jumping to get married?

Want men back in the marriage game? Get rid of no fault divorce. Currently, women initiate over 70% of all divorces. Men aren't the ones divorcing in droves. They simply don't do that. If you tell women that they can cheat, or leave their husbands, and doing so they will get the majority of marital property, the kids, the cars, the money, etc. Men are logical beings. If they see the risk being more than the reward, they won't do it. The risk is that over half of marriages end in divorce, and the vast majority are initiated by women. The reward is.... Well, I can't think of anything a guy actually gets out of being married. The reward use to be loyalty from his wife, and family. Now, women think being loyal to a man, is somehow wrong and controlling. Now, the reward is that your marriage, statistically speaking, will most likely end, and be ended by the woman. And to top it off, even if she cheats and gets pregnant, you'll be on the hook for about two decades of support while she lives with the guy, and you never actually see the kid you are paying for, regardless of if it is yours or not.

To conclude, this is a risk vs reward scenario playing out. If you keep divorce raping guys, they will sooner or later set themselves up to be in a position for that not to happen. Which happens to be, not getting married. Once women stop divorcing men at the rate they are, and stop taking all their stuff while claiming to be strong and independent, it will stop, and men will start being open to marriage again. I went through a divorce myself. As it stands, I will never, ever, even with a gun to my head, sign that paper again. Just no. The family courts are a joke. Nothing short of massive law reform is going to get men back in the marriage market. Sorry ladies, you fucked this up. Again, men aren't divorcing at even a quarter of the rate, and when they do, they sure as hell aren't going to get all of your money. The divorce rate for guys is low, because we know that we will lose in family court. So, we just stick it out.

[+]rick-p points 9 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

I understand all that and that's why many men are mgtow. What I don't understand is why OP said mgtow wouldn't like it. Have they been saying something I've been missing.

I'm not trying to argue with people I'm just really confused by OP's statement. It seems to me that mgtow would agree with this article unless I'm misinterpreting something.

[–]Phil185[S] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I probably just spoke too soon. I also posted this to MGTOW and they originally downvoted it.

The exact mentality of MGTOW isn't clear to me; I thought that they would agree with it, too. I'm really not sure.

[–]PillTheRed 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

They are trying to say that mens view of women is distorted, and does a fair deal of victim blaming. They agree with the statistics that say women are most likely divorce you and take all of your stuff, but they sugar coated the hell out of it. It overcomplicates the issue. Started out well, but then goes a bit off the rails. They are right that it is the divorce laws, but wrong about most of the rest. I think this is because if you try to criticise women in this day and age, even when the criticism is more than valid, you can't say it without being considered a misogynist who hates all women. They could have just came out and said, the divorce laws are slanted heavily against men, and women abuse those laws to their own benefit, often times leaving the man with nothing, and suicide becomes a real option. Men are wising up to being divorce raped, and are dropping out of marriage because of it.

[–]B_P_G 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The problem isn't the no-fault divorce as much as the child support formula. Having to give someone a third of your after-tax income for a decade or two with no say in what it gets spent on is not fair. The law needs to be changed to default to joint custody with no support unless one of the parents is deemed unfit due to some serious deficiency and the criminal records exist to prove it.

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