I'm a 17 year old boy with parents that went through a pretty bad divorce. I thought that this sub and r/menslib would be a good outlet to discuss about issues I thought other men could relate to and see how we can solve it together. But that isn't the case, both sub just seem to be stroking the flames of America's already divisive political and cultural landscape instead of going into the root cause as to why men have these issue. But I feel this sub is becoming no different than r/MGTOW and if you disagree give me a reason , But I'm constantly being told that it is the women in my life that are the cause of my problems when a majority of women were the ones that actually helped me with how I was feeling during my worst times, I constantly hear the society will be better off without feminisms and that we need to dismantle but I just find this untrue, Feminism isn't... an organization or a corporation or a group, really. It's a school of thought. You can't kill an idea. Even if you removed all feminist teaching from schools and the internet, you'd still have women who look around and be like "Huh, things are a bit shit for us ladies." Whether it's many people beliving the llies of post-modern Feminism
https://www.vox.com/2018/3/20/16955588/feminism-waves-explained-first-second-third-fourth
Or the complicated myths surrounding the patriarchy
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/myth-patriarchy-male-privilege-arindam-pal?trk=read_related_article-card_title
Women and Men may be part of the same species but we have different issues and problems both systemic and institutional that can only be solved through different means. We do not live in monolith, we do not think the same and as much as we don't like it, the world does not revolve around just us.
I'm of the opinion that this part of a larger trend of dehumanization that's been accelerating for the past Century or so, primarily because of american style capitalism and other similar monetary systems. Those systems, by their nature, devalue human life as the profit motive always comes first. The value of human life is not innate in this system, it is directly proportional to your productivity in your job, whether that be manufacturing, or in the more modern day, the service industry. You are the product, and you are selling yourself either literally or metaphorically, meaning that pricelessness of human life now has a price.
this is true for people on all sides of the political spectrum of any background. The expectation that somebody's willing to share their political opinion online, the expectation that people creating media for the own personal enjoyment "owe you" for making them popular, etc. While conservatives are certainly the most radical and easily apparent symptom of this problem ( https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/03/the-yuck-factor/580465/), (https://qz.com/1775505/the-most-radical-americans-of-2019-are-the-ethical-conservatives/) we all to an extent exhibit this behavior, and the insidiousness of it is that rather than overtly try and police how we act and think, it makes us police the behaviors of each other, and gives the illusion progress.
Wh
[–]DavidByron2 16 points17 points18 points (9 children) | Copy Link
[+]KensukeTanabe-10 points [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link
I don't agree with your notion of comparing feminism with the KKK, a literal hate group that was created to first and foremost oppress minorities and not actually fight for the rights of white people, I actually find that troubling. You are right that white supremacy is a school of though just like feminism, but feminism isn't preventing men from actually advocating for there rights no matter what some right-wing spokes person says. This way of thinking is only creating more division instead of admitting that we all (Men and women) victims of society.
[–]DavidByron2 12 points13 points14 points (6 children) | Copy Link
[+]KensukeTanabe-5 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
Again, that is not what feminism is, I know the history, I know the flaws but I also know the myths. In fact there actually multiple resources that feminist have created to help tackle male issues.
Some general articles on how feminism helped men/feminism and men:
An excerpt from "Feminist Theory: From Margin to Center", by bell hooks, on men in the feminist movement.
http://mic.com/articles/88277/23-ways-feminism-has-made-the-world-a-better-place-for-men
https://web.archive.org/web/20150527003525/http://now.org/blog/how-feminism-and-now-have-helped-men/
http://everydayfeminism.com/2012/08/why-men-need-feminism-3/
Gender roles/broad issues:
http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/06/the-media-mens-emotions/
http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/01/things-men-are-told/
http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/01/freeing-men-toxic-masculinity/
http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/06/men-and-emotional-literacy/
http://everydayfeminism.com/2016/02/neckbeard-cartoon/
bell hooks: We Real Cool: Black Men and Masculinity / The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love.
Gloria Steinem: "Men are as dehumanised by the masculine role forced upon them as women are by the feminine role. We need to raise our sons more like our daughters, so we do not cut off empathy." Source.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jane-powell/mens-issues-feminism_b_4902148.html
The Masculine Self by Christopher Kilmartin
The Man Question: Male Subordination and Privilege by Nancy E. Dowd
Reawyn Connell and a lot of her work: http://www.raewynconnell.net/p/masculinities_20.html
http://therepresentationproject.org/ has made a documentary on male gender roles: https://youtube.com/watch?v=hc45-ptHMxo (trailer)
http://mankindproject.org/mankind-project-history The founder who came up with the idea is a feminist, the whole organization is described as a pro-feminist one.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jane-powell/mens-issues-feminism_b_4902148.html
How sexism hurts men: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwQBlNVqL-E
Men and body image: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR1bjhyh8OM
Feminity and men: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77lPjNhL5X4
Movie stereotypes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6713bgsx64&feature=youtu.be
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2013/01/why-my-son-bobby-needs-feminism-too.html
https://www.opendemocracy.net/5050/sidita-kushi/feminism-is-for-all-exposing-gendered-limitations-of-albanian-male
http://feministing.com/2012/06/28/the-academic-feminist-talking-feminism-and-masculinities-with-tristan-bridges/
http://feministing.com/2011/08/24/not-oprahs-book-club-deep-secrets-boys-friendships-and-the-crisis-of-connection/
http://feministing.com/2010/12/15/narrowly-defined-masculinity-is-bad-for-your-health/
http://clarissethorn.com/blog/2012/07/23/postsecret-manliness-relationships-and-erections/
Feminisms is not a perfect ideology and I agree it has flaws but all things do. I used to be like you in that I believed in the 'Man Hating Feminist' feminist were a bunch of Misandrists that were advocating to oppress men in society. That was until I actually did my own research, went out and met new people and had the women in my life help me with my issues and learn there perspective. I'm not just pulling what I say out of thin air.
Life is not a monolith, not everyone thinks the same, just because they are women who are against feminism doesn't make it a pointless ideology or that their opinions mean more than the tons of women and men that believe in said ideology.
[–]DavidByron2 9 points10 points11 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[+]Donna201299-14 points [recovered] (16 children) | Copy Link
I really don't understand this and anytime I hear it, it just makes me think you should take a break from twitter and stop watching clickbait reactionary YouTube videos that spew nothing but fake outrage.
There is no one preventing men from better advocating for our rights, We could actually use the men's right movement to help bring awareness to our issues, but instead we would rather just invalidate feminisms that actually make any change.
[–]Reddit1984Censorship 14 points15 points16 points (14 children) | Copy Link
[+]Donna201299-13 points [recovered] (13 children) | Copy Link
No, they really are not.
[–]Reddit1984Censorship 10 points11 points12 points (4 children) | Copy Link
[+]Donna201299-3 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
I got to disagree with your saying because it's flawed, if feminist did control the institution this sub-reddit would have been banned long ago lol. But in all seriousness, it feels like your not actually doing your own research into feminism and just going off the same nonsense that some right-wing anti-feminist and articles spew about feminism that is not worth listing to IMO. In contrast there multiple claims that men control over every institution in society, that's the issue why should I take your claims over theirs? Feminisms isn't a perfect ideology (nothing is) but , the idea that they control society is just flawed way thinking that comes off as a nonsense conspiracy.
[–]Past-Difficulty6785 3 points4 points5 points (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–]TonightFewstars 8 points9 points10 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[+]Donna201299-1 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
Where did you get this information from? Because I've looked it up and found nothing. Don't always trust every article you read online.
[–]duhhhh 11 points12 points13 points (5 children) | Copy Link
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[+]KensukeTanabe0 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
I heard of this story, What happened to Earl Silverman(RIP) was tragic and I thank him for his efforts despite how much the odds where aginst him. But after looking into this story, from what I've seen, he started it in part, because of a falling-out he had with a both-sexes DV shelter in town. At first the government funded his shelter, but he had trouble finding a demand, and eventually they stopped funding him. He then proceeded to sue some government officials personally for that decision, harassed them for years, then committed suicide.
That isn't the way his story is usually repeated, though. It's become a cause célèbre among for those, who spin it a completely different way. And that's what I'm getting at here: the 50% statistic is "fragile"—you have to ask certain narrow questions in certain ways to get a number like that, while other polling methods have women at much higher rates than men.
I'm also aware of Erin Pizzey. I personally don't dismiss her. I agree with her belief and think it's at least in part because some feminists are against providing that kind of service for men and believe that men don't have 'real' issues. The treatment and ideas around men and their problems is the biggest thing that I argue with other feminists about actually.
However, I also understand the opposing views. Women have faced serious oppression and hardship, particularly when using the value system of our imperialistic/capitalist society. Depending on time period and location the mistreatment of women often outweighs that of men. I don't agree with people who write men off, but they do have reasons to think the way they do.
Regardless of all that though, where you fall on a single issue should not be the line of whether you are a feminist or antifeminist. I disagree with many on where men fit into the ideology, but that disagreement doesn't mean I suddenly become antifeminist any more than my disagreement with SWERFs, or racist feminists, or whatever else.
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