Is this a red flag?

StrangestUnicorn · 2023-06-17T13:13:48+00:00

I think that neither of the three things you listed are red flags at this stage of your relationship.

I tried several times to end the conversation mentioning the meeting. He wanted to continue to talk, which I accepted and in the end it was waaaay too long.

Can you elaborate on how exactly you tried to end the conversation? I suspect that you were trying to be polite when ending the conversation by mentioning the meeting, but by doing so you were not assertive enough about your intent to end it. I understand that it would rude to say "I'm going to bed. Bye." and just hang up in the middle of the conversation. So you brought up the meeting as a way to both hint at your intentions, as well as give yourself a justification for cutting the conversation short, but in the process you did not state clearly enough your intent to end it. In communication, politeness is often the opposite of assertiveness, and balancing both can be difficult. That's why "lets talk/call again after" is a useful conversation ender - it is both polite and assertive.

Speaking of "lets talk/call again after". This phrase is just a polite way to end a conversation, and should not be taken literally. If he doesn't call you back after saying this phrase, it does not mean he is forgetful or is unreliable with his words. When he says that he "doesn't take it too serious", it means that this phrase is just a part of speech that does not mean an actual "promise" to call again later.

However this kind of makes me feel somewhat unsafe regarding his judgment and his ability to make decisions "for us"?

I cannot handle longterm is to be responsible for "my share" while the other is not supportive of e.g. me getting enough sleep to be fully functional at work.

I have a hard time understanding what you mean by this. You two are not in a relationship. It is not his responsibility to make decisions "for us" nor to be supportive of your "share". To him, you are an adult stranger on the internet and he treats you with the basic dignity afforded to an adult stranger, by trusting you to make your own decisions about your "share", such as making sure you go to sleep on time. Your failure to be more assertive in ending the phone call is not indicative of his judgment, but rather a symptom of your own poor boundaries/communication skills.

He also did neither wish me success with the meeting this morning, nor did he ask in the afternoon how the meeting was. [...] However usually in such a situation if would be normal to at least ask how things went? I mean even "friends" do that

To this I say again: You two are not in a relationship. What is "normal" between friends and couples is very different from that of internet strangers. More often than not, it would be considered intrusive to ask an internet stranger about their important work event/meeting because they might be uncomfortable talking about it with a stranger in case this event/meeting went poorly. It is therefore more appropriate to leave it up to them to bring up their important work event/meeting if they choose to talk about it.

Few times I wrote later "goodnight" or "sleep well" to which he also does not respond, not even the next morning with a "good morning, have a nice day" or similar.

To this I say again: You two are not in a relationship. Perhaps you and I are different, but I would never write "goodnight" or "good morning" to any person I chat online with. To me, "sleep well" is more intimate than a hug. If our relationship has not progressed to the point of regular hugs, I do not write "sleep well", nor expect them to respond. Perhaps this guy has similar views to my own, which I do not think is all that uncommon.

To summarize, the things you mentioned would have been a red flag if you two have been seeing each other for several weeks. But given that you two have not met each other even once, I do not consider his behavior so far concerning.

Takiyah7 · 2023-06-17T15:14:48+00:00

Long reply incoming! 😆

You have poor boundaries. Why? 1. You were hoping that he would respect your boundaries by not continuing the conversation, but it is your personal responsibility to protect your boundaries. Depending on other people to protect your own boundaries will not turn out good for you. 2. Correct me if I am wrong, but I can sense that you are expecting friendship/dating behaviour from a man who does not consider you his friend/has not formally asked you to date. It's nice to have someone respond to your texts, but he really doesn't have to text back good night and good morning to you. If you saw him as just an acquaintance in a red pill group and did not expect something deeper, you'd be able to ignore his lack of texting and keep it pushing. Persons who are interested in you put in a lot of effort, even if it's just to be friends.

I'm going to expand on these 2 points in the following paragraphs. Also, it doesn't appear that you two are dating, but I'm going to speak a bit from a dating angle from here on.

Female dating behaviours/behaviour that encourages men to provide, protect and commit, and submission in established relationships does not include depending on men to protect YOUR OWN boundaries. It's not an easy concept to grasp or enact when you're not familiar with red pill women, especially when you're talking to a man who displays A LOT of traditional characteristics. Expecting men to provide and protect may appear to be applicable to your boundaries as well, but there is a difference and it is important! Should he respect your boundaries? Yes! Should he protect your boundaries? No, that is your responsibility.

Having poor boundaries includes not having requirements from a person or situation before integrating them/it into your life emotionally, physically etc (not knowing what the boundaries are), and consequently not drawing clear lines to ensure that those requirements are met (not protecting it).

It will be difficult to assess what type of man he is and the health of the relationship (whether it's an acquaintance or something more) if you have poor boundaries because you won't be sure if some of his behaviour is inherently disrespectful or not. In other words, it is difficult to know if he respects your boundaries if you don't know what they are and don't protect them.

If you do not protect the boundary between an acquaintance, a friend and a boyfriend, then you will mix up the red flags that can be seen in each stage, and will be unsure like you are now. Also, is he not hanging up because he doesn't respect the fact that you have an urgent meeting, or is he not hanging up because it sounds like you yourself still want to and have time to talk to him before the meeting starts? Hard to tell right? Depending on him to hang up is a not a good way to assess respect because only you know how much time you need for the meeting, and only you can ensure that you have enough time to prepare for it. If you had firm boundaries and informed him that you had to go but would talk to him later and hung up, but he blew up about it later in the evening, THAT would be your red flag.

Another consequence of poor boundaries is entering into covert contracts with men. A covert contract is expecting him to do things that you have not made clear that you expect him to do. You suffer because you're upset but he doesn't know why and he can't do anything about it (Covert contracts do not include basic human decency and respect. There is a baseline of decent behaviour that everyone should have with other humans, but that varies across cultures).

Expecting (not hoping, as that is a natural byproduct of having feelings for someone) a friendship to be something more is an example of a covert contract. However, having strong boundaries means having an established barrier of entry that protects you emotionally, mentally and physically. When that barrier of entry is established AND protected, people know what they have to do to be friends/in a relationship with you, (or at least know that what they're doing isn't working) and you're not left guessing what is a red flag and what is not.

Women who have good boundaries attract healthy masculine men. These men can't have someone who is a pushover as a first mate because if he happens to not be able to captain (sickness, out of the country, death etc) what will happen to his family and legacy?

I'm not sure if you are Christian, but Boundaries in Dating by Dr Henry Cloud and Dr John Townsend is a good book to read. While it focuses on dating, it addresses boundaries in friendships, business partnerships and among acquaintances and strangers as well. It thoroughly addresses the many issues I can see from your post but can't because my response is already long enough 😅

P.S.

As someone who responds late to texts from everyone except this guy I was head over heels in love with, him not ever texting you back goodnight/good morning is a sign that he doesn't really like you like that and/or may be battling something like depression. You can meet up just as acquaintances with a shared passion to discuss said passion, but keep it pushing in general, unless he satisfies the requirements you need to call it something more.

Funny_Garage3895 · 2023-06-17T06:27:31+00:00

AutoModerator · 2023-06-16T18:58:18+00:00

Title: Is this a red flag?

Full text: Hi ladies,

I need your perspective for understanding if some things observed in the man I am about to date are potential red flags.

For many different reasons I was never really in the position of being "cared for" or "courted" by a man in a healthy way. I think plenty has to do with the relationship to my dad. I tried many years to restore this relationship and while I was somewhat successful I also had to kind learn to survive on and tolerate being breadcrumbed by both of my parents while I remained loyal to them for many years.

To give you some background, we got to know each other within a group of people online that meet online occasionally to discuss or vent about politics and the current state of our world. He is similarly traditionally minded as me while be both also try to remain open to our times and the changes they bring. He already has a three year old daughter but would like to have a second child. We have openly talked from a theoretical perspective about our opinions about birth control and family values within this online group of people where we met. So this enabled us to have a quite honest start with each other. But of course, words are nothing, right?

Since I have a background of difficult relationships and also family I am sometimes not certain if my boundaries are healthy, meaning neither too loose nor too strict and I would like to hear your opinion on few situations

1) we were talking on the phone spontaneously when we felt like it without any expectations attached to it and almost always when we end the phone call because either of us needs to do something he says something along "lets talk/call again after" to which I then responded either "ok" or "let's see, how we have time" or similar. But he almost never follows up on this. On contrary it can be that he does not connect again, neither via text nor phone, for the entire day. Few times I wrote later "goodnight" or "sleep well" to which he also does not respond, not even the next morning with a "good morning, have a nice day" or similar. I asked him what it means and his answer was that "he sometimes is too much in his thoughts and then he forgets and also doesn't take it too serious". Which I generally think is ok, if one is otherwise in touch more or less continuously throughout the day. However I think I need someone with a strong reliability regarding his words. So for me I am doubting that I can take someone serious who "forgets" within 30 minutes that he said he wants to call and does then not even remember to let me know that with respect to calling he changed his mind

2) we were in the phone yesterday and I had an important meeting at work today at 1pm. I said I cannot talk long because of the meeting, he also said he needs to sleep early. I tried several times to end the conversation mentioning the meeting. He wanted to continue to talk, which I accepted and in the end it was waaaay too long. Anyway we are both grown up and simply enjoyed talking to each other. However this kind of makes me feel somewhat unsafe regarding his judgment and his ability to make decisions "for us"? Although this is of course way too early to tell,... He also did neither wish me success with the meeting this morning, nor did he ask in the afternoon how the meeting was. He is meeting some friends over the weekend and has a busy day today as well, so I also did not contact him.

So it is ok if he is not interested in the details of my working life, fine with me. However usually in such a situation if would be normal to at least ask how things went? I mean even "friends" do that if one was e.g. partying the evening before something important...?

3) apparently he grew up somewhat wealthy but more with grandma instead of parents and his relationship with parents (particularly mom) is not very good. Apparently money was never a problem for him and when I told him how I had to build and earn everything I am today completely by myself he told me that he grew up more or less completely carefree and that he thinks about himself as lacking ambition because of that. So maybe this also explains why he is not taking my work very serious because he himself never had to care? I could in principle easily hand over some responsibility if he wanted to, however what I cannot handle longterm is to be responsible for "my share" while the other is not supportive of e.g. me getting enough sleep to be fully functional at work.

Aside from that we are very respectful and considerate with each other and are slowly building trust and hopefully meet each other for the first time next week. We openly talk about red pill and and such agree that it has some truth but that we both prefer more balance

It is of course way too early to say anything, but theb maybe it is best to understand about potential red flags before feelings and hopes cloud the judgment.

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InfiniteShadox · 2023-06-17T19:43:15+00:00

I tried several times to end the conversation mentioning the meeting. He wanted to continue to talk, which I accepted and in the end it was waaaay too long.

Is he from the Midwest?

CranberrySoftServe · 2023-06-18T14:58:01+00:00

I could write a more specific reply here but I think it’s best summarized by saying you have a lot of uncommunicated/silent expectations as well as poor boundaries and you need to do a lot of work on both of those issues.

Title	Is this a red flag?
Author	DelicateDevelopment
Upvotes	3
Comments	7
Date	June 16, 2023 6:58 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/14b4y5l/is_this_a_red_flag/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/is-this-a-red-flag.1222665 https://theredarchive.com/post/1222665

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