5 Hour Date but Couldn't Close

unspecifiedthreat · 2017-06-19T14:35:55+00:00

You weren't going to have sex with her as soon as you agreed to take her to a movie that she brought up in casual conversation (her frame). Even worse you bought tickets in advance and eagerly text her as much. Has she trained you to bring her the newspaper in the morning as well? Do you beg for treats too? C'mon man!

Women want to be lead so why not setup your own plans and invite her to join YOU? Moving forward, start things off at the rooftop bar for a drink and bounce to at least one venue closer to your place before coming up with a reason to lead her up to your place (dessert?) Once you're back at your place then escalate.

Try to understand the "why" of what is transpiring on your dates. You ran into hardcore ASD (anti-slut defense) the night you met her so what makes you think taking nearly the exact same approach at the end of your time together on Day 2 was going to work this time?

Since you did not understand the dynamics in play during your time together now you've given up hope of sex altogether? Really?

DHV > Compliance Test > IOD > DHV > Compliance Test > IOI = win

Good luck.

the-capitan · 2017-06-19T15:28:17+00:00

she actually ended up asking me if I saw "The Mummy" yet. Naturally, I jumped on this opportunity and texted her back that I just bought tickets, and arranged a date for Saturday evening at 9pm.

never go to a fucking movie pre-sex. movies do not give you a opportunity to escalate or build rapport. even worse move that she suggested it and you not only jumped on it, but you eagerly jumped on it (buying tickets), and gave her the most valuable night of the week (Saturday). you're in her frame in every way.

wandering into a bunch of random high end stores and building the first real connection by cold reading what kind of clothes are her style

again, you're in her frame. you're shopping with her. men don't think this is shopping because we don't do this. women will walk around for hours and often buy nothing.

we finished the night by grabbing some food

again, you're over-investing in a girl you're not fucking yet.

I really fucked up at the end by being too aggressive

no, you fucked up in the beginning by not escalating properly. you put yourself in the beta box and when you tried to escalate, she refused to let a beta escalate on her.

i'll get to what you have to do for this girl below, but for the next girl, you sit down for drinks at a bar (not at a table) and in 60 minutes or less, you must build rapport and extract info out of her ACTIONS for whether she wants to fuck you. you cannot put in nice-guy coins of movies and food and drinks and think that you can negotiate into her pants. that's how betabux works, not attraction.

she did text me at 3am after the date saying that she was super tired and wanted to hang out again next week.

for this girl, next her. say nothing, do not respond. she already put you in the beta zone and then shot you down.

vengefully_yours · 2017-06-19T14:45:20+00:00

She isn't into you. When a girl is into you, she will touch you, reciprocate touch, and look at you inviting a kiss. When she isn't into you, that night is what you get. I've had socially awkward girls act similarly to that one, but they still had their tells. Usually the looks. Girls will go on dates to get free stuff with zero plans to fuck you. I give a few tries to reciprocate, if they don't I ghost them and go do something else. I don't give out free shit.

The invitation to kiss her is obvious. They go from looking at your eyes to your mouth and back. The more they're doing that and coming closer to you, the more they're aching for a kiss and escalation. I see it often. Look for it. If they aren't doing that, chances are she isn't into you. She shies away from touch, not into you.

Mangoinhand · 2017-06-19T14:49:54+00:00

You bought movie tickets the moment she uttered "Mummy"

No fucking way. That's some Freudian stuff right there. That's the critical error that caused everything else after.

LordThunderbolt · 2017-06-19T14:53:53+00:00

"After that, we went exploring around the rest of the hotel where the rooftop bar was and she had this cutest fear of heights thing. "

Oneitis alarm is ringing!!!

You spent waaay too much time with her, to the point where she got exhausted from hanging out with you. 20mn-1h tops. Keep it short but intense. Escalate at your own leisure and let her pump the brakes. Just so your thing. Be proactive not reactive.

redaftrp · 2017-06-19T13:56:13+00:00

She is looking for a beta bux and you entered her frame. Instead of saying you bought tickets, you should've replied with, "I'll let you take me, but only if you buy me dinner first." The idea here is you are the prize, if she doesn't view you this way, you cut contact and move on, no time wasted. Instead you rewarded her for wasting your time and she gave you numerous hints that she wasn't that into you. Expect her to be distant and not want to hang out again, until you get another big break in your business and she finds out about it. Only then will she be interested in hanging out with you.

SovereignSoul76 · 2017-06-19T17:30:06+00:00

At the risk of demoralizing you: the whole endeavor was a giant fuck-up. It happens, even with experience, but you did it to yourself here in like 5 different ways.

First step: Delete her out of your phone, read what everyone else is telling you on here, and your next first date should be shooting pool or grabbing a cup of coffee. Regardless of how things are going, pull the ejection cord after 60-90 mins AT THE MOST. Your time is valuable. Always leave 'em wanting more.

You're giving away money and time like a sucka. You're the male equivalent of the chick who fucks a guy in the bathroom at a party, and wonders why he won't offer you commitment afterwards.

grewapair · 2017-06-19T19:12:03+00:00

I got her number then and almost pulled her home back to my place, but she was resisting really hard so I settled for a hug and walking her back to the train station then. After that, we exchanged a few texts and she actually ended up asking me if I saw "The Mummy" yet.

This is just cringeworthy. She immediately told you she wasn't that into you with a hug. At that point, you should have moved on. But no, you were desperate, and so it was game on!

What was the game? It's called how can I use this guy and then laugh about him to all my friends. So she basically put a harness on you and tried to see how easy it would be to get you to do her bidding.

Step 1, mention a movie and then watch you scurry around and buy tickets.

Next time, you take her to a park or something free, and watch how fast she bails on you. She probably would have agreed to it, but no showed you so she could laugh about it to your friends.

Now, what you're thinking is "That's lame. No girl would agree to go to a park." But you're wrong, she'd want to do just about anything if she was into you.

Next, you'll say "But her SMV was better than mine, and I had to take her somewhere good or she wouldn't go." That's true too, but you cannot purchase attraction. Now you might have wowed her with your personality and won her over, except there was one problem: you went to a movie on a first date. So you had no chance. Not that it sounds like you had much of a chance doing anything else, but with a movie, you were doomed. You tried to impress her by how much you could do for her and she lost what little respect it sounds like she ever had.

She didn't go to that movie because she liked you, she went to see if she could manipulate you. Even if she keeps seeing you, it will be on those terms: you're the slave and she'll give you the occasional short make out session because she knows it's worth dinner, etc.

You need to start testing from day one whether she's into you or whether she's just using you. A cheap first date is a good test. You may learn your SMV is far, far lower than you think, but at least you'll know and you won't walk away from every date with blue balls.

Step one on your journey: ask the girls at the club who the best looking guy is and stand next to him all night. There, you'll learn how a girl acts who's into a guy. She doesn't give him a hug.

[deleted] · 2017-06-19T13:55:40+00:00

I'm sure an EC will dive on this and give you some good RP advice in a mo, but for me...

You should be consistently escalating with the girl your with, leading her, telling her what you're both doing rather than suggesting it - women don't like passive behaviour from men, either be overt in your intentions or prepare to be seen as a bit of a creep.

If you think of this as 'aggressive' it is only relative to how a generic bro would behave, the girl can still say 'No' at any time, it's not like you're handcuffing her to you.

Though from what you've said I'd have to say this girl is not all that interested in you mate, you need to learn to simultaneously play it cool, hold frame and yet escalate and get the results you're after.

Taking sex off the table whilst out with a girl will just lead to protracted, and expensive, friendly dinner-dates.

Don't catch oneitis, make yourself the focus if you're looking to bed a lot of women. Check the Sidebar again.

SilverGryphon · 2017-06-19T15:02:40+00:00

If a girl is really into you, you won't need to wait long before she wants to get kissed. Some years ago I had a decent looking girl (SMV 6) ram her tongue down my throat after a few minutes of dancing with her in the club. This was after I made fun of her because she ran out of vodka, too bad I was still a bluepiller so I did not escalate things further.

Edit: I would try just one more date and keep it as cheap as possible. If she does not give in, ghost her.

Scandinavianredpill · 2017-06-19T14:06:34+00:00

You cannot always close, if she wants to have a shot at having a relationsship with you she will put off sex to 2 or third date, then behave like a total slut from then and on. Funny enough if you say you aren't into a relationsship she might give you sex on the first date or she might kick you out depending on her perceived SMV difference.

DadOnDabs · 2017-06-19T15:01:41+00:00

The advice her so far had been good. My number 1 tip would be to post this on askTRP where it belongs.

9toro · 2017-06-19T15:13:42+00:00

No movie dates with girls you are dating, ltr maybe. I think if you would have skipped the movie you might have dunked the donut. She probably sees you as a meal ticket. Being aggressive is not a bad thing, you can weed them out quicker its a push n pull thing. Date other women let this one come to you and get her to pay for things if you decide to go on another date. 9/10 times, if a girl is interested she will let you poke, its a vibe thing i usually sense. You seem like a nice guy settling to jerk off next time.

MattyAnon · 2017-06-19T18:50:46+00:00

It was at this point that she really started opening up after we started talking about my business and how I just closed a big deal today.

Provider hunter.

Overall, I really fucked up at the end by being too aggressive, as usual

It's best to alternate aggressiveness with distance.... and to include false time constraints especially with new things like entering her home. Also - join in with any objections. "Yes, I've got an early start tomorrow too".

I’m making the same mistake over and over again with multiple girls and still not learning from it

Generally girls like sexual aggression so long as it's not TOO aggressive. You can push things furthest and quickest by going forwards/backwards... eg establishing page 5 before exploring page 6. Then back to page 1. Then 5, then 6.... then she joins in at page 6? you back right off to page 4... then back through 5 and 6 to 7 now... and then quickly back to 5.

This is my mental model anyway. Each new "explore" is fast and teasing and gone before she can object. Then back up through the levels in turn, find a new level, then back off again.

For example... stroking her back... she's joining in. Stroke down to her ass briefly, then back up to her shoulders. Then back down her back. Is she joining in or reserved at this point? If joining in, back to her ass again. Then away. Two explores and then go for the full groping. Is she joining in or getting uncomfortable? If she's getting uncomfortable, back off and try something else. If she's comfortable either tease or escalate further.

It combines teasing with escalation, she never says "no" or "not yet" because every new level is gone before she can object, and you gauge her interest from how much she joins in at a LOWER level.

Levels are a pretty obvious intimacy escalation, you can guess the levels as well as I can.

Most guys go too fast or too slow, and instead of judging her reaction they either ignore it (obviously bad) or require explicit approval (also bad). Another mistake is to see a barrier and then stay just-this-side of it rather than backing off more.

Also bear in mind a lot of girls have a public sex issue. They don't wanna get too intimate with you in public.

redpillrobby · 2017-06-19T19:20:32+00:00

You should try having sex with the girl at the beginning of the date instead. It really lightens the mood for the rest of the night and often results in a second round later.

Metalgear222 · 2017-06-19T21:21:13+00:00

Don't eagerly text back ever.
You pick the date idea not her.
Don't talk about your business or the deals you closed. She doesn't care.
You ignored her saying she needed to go because you were being needy. A repulsive turn off for girls.
Look at 4 for why your escalation didn't work.
Never feel bad for escalating. Follow your dick. Find girls that want it, not ones that you have to chase forever just to them to touch it.
Game other girls.

MarketGiraffe · 2017-06-19T22:25:13+00:00

my best fuck closes have been coffee for 20 minutes down the street then come back and check out my pad and "learn more about my life" LOL

edit: all the girls were very average or below average though. the more high quality girls took two dates which were more involved

ohyeawellyousuck · 2017-06-20T05:28:21+00:00

Alright I know a lot of people have already helped, but here is my thoughts.

"I still have a chance cuz she turned me down but then texted me saying she wants to hang out"

Nope. Terrible. Orbiter.

"I feel a real connection with this girl but I have to forget about sex cuz it screws me up."

What? Your her BFF at this point.

"I settled for a hug"

Never. Friends hug. You hug your mom. You kiss your date. She turns you down? you move on

Is there truth to not escalating without reciprocation? Obviously. But if you only escalate with a girl that showing you good vibes, you won't get anywhere. It's like asking for permission. Total turn off. Push proactively, don't be creepy, and be prepared to move on at any time.

My two cents. Down vote if you disagree

THE_StrongBoy · 2017-06-20T01:23:59+00:00

I promised myself that if the world is ending ill take a girl on a first date movie date, and try to fuck her in the theater in front of everyone. Until then you wont catch me dead with a girl in a movie theater unless shes a long time plate and theres a movie that i have to see in theatera

psirico123 · 2017-06-20T11:23:54+00:00

Sincerely, I didn't read the full thread simply because your main error is already in the title.

If you don't kiss her under 30 minutes of a date you're doing something VERY wrong.

Fix it.

Pro_Like_Me · 2017-06-19T16:16:46+00:00

yeah i dont get why u text her that about the film it made you look desperate

d0lphinsex · 2017-06-19T17:44:08+00:00

A good first date is where you do something together. Going to the movies isn't doing anything. A good example is playing pool or shuffle board. Then you compete against each other and you can tease her and touch her easily and naturally. I lost bigly last time I played shuffle against a girl. We had some drinks after and I acted like I was a mess over the loss. I ended the date after around 2 hours with a hug. Next date we went to her place for some cheese and wine and sex.

Philhelm · 2017-06-19T18:22:15+00:00

It's not a "date," it's a "meeting."
Never take a woman to a movie. Failing that, never take one to a movie for the first meeting. It burns two hours in which you are unable to verbally communicate, and it's expensive if you keep paying for that crap again, and again, and again.
A bitch being shushed at a theater is a red flag.
Jerking off before a meeting isn't going to help.

Rapist_Winston · 2017-06-19T18:30:06+00:00

Movies are actually not very good date venues. Maybe with your GF/SO but definitely not a first date.

ownthatshitmanup · 2017-06-19T18:59:53+00:00

Uhh man.

Good things 1. Kino 2. Kissed her

Bad things 1. Brought tickets for her - makes it seem you're desperate for her time. 2. Cinema? Unoriginal and bad for kino 3. Kept pushing it when it's clear as day to her that you want to fuck her and chased her home like some homeless person.

Ideas to do instead 1. Keep busy, be creative with your dates and exciting. Like don't tell her what you'll do but meet at a place near the mall or the park and take her to places you want, while kino and chatting casually along the way. Lead her to the park or the cinema, obviously let her buy her own ticket because she's an independent women. And oh no, if there's no movies available, how about a nice evening at your place with sofas and Netflix and ice cream . It's cheaper and cooler anyways right. And then if you feel like it take her to another spot along the way, tell her how you used to stare at the stars and think deeply about the world and really retarded shit like that and lead her to your place and so on... Something like this man. Just have fun and if she doesn't want to do it just be chill and lead her out. It was fun anyways.

mushroom_overlord · 2017-06-19T19:58:21+00:00

Seems like you're were way too eager to see the movie. It looks as though you absolutely jumped on the opportunity which doesn't really communicate your value. Movies also have their problems for dates, but seeing that you found some new venues I guess you may have corrected that.

Then I'd say you visited too many venues and built too much of a friendly relationship... this doesn't mean she won't fuck you someday but it wasn't that night. Hopefully you were leading her (alpha) but it seems like you were also trying to please her with a deluge of "positive" experiences with all pull and no push (beta).

At least she made out with you so it might get to fucking eventually. But she's obviously a nervous person, and I think it was a mistake not to invite her back to your place with a convenient excuse to avoid ASD but escalating all the way. You obviously gave her a weird vibe by trying to make up for all the escalation you missed, all at once, in a situation where she felt social pressure to increase ASD (her roommates might judge her for sleeping with a guy so quickly).

Not sure if the advice you mentioned on limiting escalation was effective here. They say to always be closing, and while there's nuance I think you made this date a little too friendly and killed the sexual vibe if there was one.

But maybe it was just a bad night for her and your game will work the next night. If you feel like giving her another chance just schedule another date, I guess it's your call whether to try the same game but I would say you should have escalated and looked for more chances to close.

1antinomy · 2017-06-20T01:53:14+00:00

Your first mistake was taking her to the movies.

Very little opportunity to interact verbally or physically.

Loreing · 2017-06-20T12:54:32+00:00

Sorry, accidentally fucked up by posting a link to an earlier post I made on RedPill. Now my post is deleted by the automoderator. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks

ShotgunTRP · 2017-06-20T13:19:48+00:00

I wish this didn't get deleted. I was going to thank of for making a detailed field report warts and all and opening up some great dialogue

dandons · 2017-06-19T21:12:51+00:00

Fear is always a major turn on for women. Next time go on flying date or something like that :)

Bing400 · 2017-06-20T07:32:42+00:00

So OP, what lessons did you learn from what the others are saying? How will you make this blunder work for you?

Title	5 Hour Date but Couldn't Close
Author	Loreing
Upvotes	22
Comments	43
Date	June 19, 2017 1:39 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/6i6g8b/5_hour_date_but_couldnt_close/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/5-hour-date-but-couldnt-close.44123 https://theredarchive.com/post/44123

Comments

Oneitis alarm is ringing!!!