Attraction has always been manipulation

2014-07-02T20:51:01+00:00

Manipulation and strategy are easily interchangeable in a semantics sense. It's the connotation that matters. A similar comparison would be loneliness vs solitude.

"Attraction has always been strategic."

Who can argue with this? We can go to the dawn of human history and this quote will ring true. What do these bluepillers and feminist expect men with low SMV to do? Simple accept their place and stumble through life, praying to god some attractive female falls in love with them/

Fuck that.

Working on gaining confidence is a choice. That is strategy. Working on improving one's body is a choice. Strategy. Learning to appeal to women. Strategy.

I feel that most people who read these negative, generalizing criticisms of TRP have constructed a false sense of reality. The courtship scene in human culture is extremely varied, ranging culture, age, attractiveness, ethnicity, subculture, class, etc. When they read a story about how much of a manipulative loser some fictional red pill guy is, their imagination narrows down on a scenario that is easily agreeable to them to confirm their beliefs.

Some people NEED a better strategy. I swear, these bluepillers and feminists are imagining some kind of Ryan Gosling type asshole who manipulates women into sex rather than "Just Talking To Her!" and "Being Himself!"

They cannot comprehend for one moment that some of us might not live in their own little worlds.

FrogTrainer · 2014-07-02T20:33:54+00:00

Push-up bras are manipulation.

2014-07-02T20:41:24+00:00

If you're a guy and you think you have to walk with a lot of money in your pocket and wear nice jewelry to attract women, more power to you. Never let anyone tell you that you're wrong. Women are out here using push-up bras, heels, eyeliner, makeup, short shorts and glasses to look more attractive.

HalfPastTuna · 2014-07-02T22:43:02+00:00

By this logic people are manipulated into every emotional state

mercuryg · 2014-07-03T01:38:46+00:00

Indeed, when you think about it, there's no such thing as attraction without manipulation.

This is scratching the surface though, if you go even further down the rabbit hole you come across a part of TRP that might be one of the hardest ones to swallow. That is, the realization that the act of manipulation is not what mainstream ideologies have made it out to be. The act of (hell, even the word itself) manipulating has been demonized and vilified to the point where it's associated with sociopaths and psychos.

But if you look past that, you realize that the act of manipulating is actually completely amoral, sure it can be used for purposes that can be judged right or wrong, but the act itself is neutral. Because there is no alternative, human beings manipulate each other constantly, i'll even go so far as to say we don't do anything else, everything human beings do or say to each other is manipulation to a certain degree.

This begs the question, what's the difference between a "nice guy" and a game aware redpiller? The answer is the intent. Let's say the nice guy and the redpiller went out and got laid the same night, the only difference is that the nice guy met a girl and got lucky, while the redpiller played smart, and purposefully manipulated the woman to sleep with him.

There is zero difference in the amount of manipulating these two men executed, they played the same game, the only difference is that the redpiller was mindful and aware of it, the nice guy wasn't. But was the redpiller more manipulative (and therefore evil) than the nice guy? That's what these feminists want you to believe, but you know it's bullshit. These two men played the same game, they performed a seduction, they succeeded, they are equally manipulative, they differ only in awareness.

Go even further and you realize the general use of sexual strategy, emotional manipulation, and game, is also completely amoral (women know this, that's why they're so good at it), you are allowed to use whatever tools you have at your disposal to succeed in the mating game. Look at women, they use everything they have at their disposal to succeed, they are natural manipulators to the point where they can do it both intentionally and unintentionally at the same time, which is why they need their hamsters.

As a male, you are allowed to do the exact opposite, to approach the mating game in a completely rational way, like a scientist, you should examine the game and then play it wisely. Always learn, always improve, always grow, and don't let anyone tell you toxic lines like be yourself, or be patient, The One will come along one day, or you're such a nice guy, you're gonna make a woman very happy one day and so on.

....But yeah, what OP said, there is no such thing as a seduction without manipulation.

greycloud24 · 2014-07-02T22:56:39+00:00

you wouldn't believe the women i saw at the gym who were working at sexually manipulating men. a lot of them buy sexual manipulation guides like cosmo, and they check out "dating sites" so they can learn what men want in order to sexually manipulate them. shit is disgusting.

otiswild · 2014-07-02T21:47:47+00:00

What's the difference between manipulation and persuasion?

__ROOSTER__ · 2014-07-03T02:01:20+00:00

Straight from NLP

ALL communication is manipulation.

Manipulation is neutral. People pay teachers and therapists to manipulate them. I.e. Change their beliefs, behaviors, etc.

JohnGalt316 · 2014-07-02T22:15:37+00:00

surprised they haven't called it "mental rape" or some variant

mysterioussydney · 2014-07-02T23:58:08+00:00

The whole beauty industry is founded upon manipulation techniques.

I've slept with a 9 ONS and found out she was a 5.5 the next morning. Oh the horror....

2014-07-03T05:41:36+00:00

This is a nice post, I think it gets at a bigger point which is that for many men, they need to just adopt an attitude of "no-shame game." If it works, do it. If it is no big deal for you to hit the club, valet park your S class, and hit the VIP with your rolex, do it. My friend's dad is 52 and a surgeon. He regularly fucks baristas and women from the 3-4 local coffee spots near his office. For breaks, he just steps out with his coat on, signifying his status, spits some game, and gets these younger women to give him their number. His family / friends will constantly pick at him, like "aren't you ashamed picking on these younger women! They only are with you because you're rich / a surgeon / they have daddy issues." His baby mama ex suggested that is actually "raping" these women because they are lower class (working at starbucks) and they are compelled to have sex with him by his flaunting of his "upper class" status. He said basically that it is not his business why a woman is with him, that is her own issue to work out. It's the result that counts, so have no shame about your methods if they produce the desired result.

Here's the "no-shame game" that girls employ - and it works pretty damn well on men who lack experience with women.

About 1/2 of the "hot girls" you see at a club will actually be skinny-fat, no real tone on her ass and legs, bad skin quality, average facial aesthetics, fairly out of shape, and already showing signs of age due to smoking / drinking / bad sleep cycles / "hot girl diet". But dolled up in the particular environment of the club, with her dress and make-up and fake-tan just right, she will look perfect to a beta just sticking his head out there into the scene.

Women, as any feminist will point out, spend endless time and money on trying to project themselves as a perfect, unattainable ideal. One of my exes, a fairly attractive women with a start-up that had real potential, was the same. With everything angles just right, with all the right clothes on and products, with the wrinkles on her eyes hidden, with the practiced smile, she could really look like the perfect woman. The beauty who is also successful in her career, yet still gets to "have it all" and have a great dating life.

Then you see that she has to take adderall despite not having ADHD every day to deal with the work, and take xanax at night to fall asleep. Then you see that she doesn't work out much and just relies on appetitte suppression and caffeine to get through the day and stay slim. Her ass looked nice, but when you feel it, your hand just kinda squishes in like it was a boob. This lifestyle is destroying this girl, but the "hacks" of modern day life blinds herself and everyone around her to the reality of the situation. But I'll be damned if I didn't buy into the vision of her that she calculatedly projected in the beginning.

TRPDispenser · 2014-07-03T10:02:51+00:00

There's a fine line between manipulation and persuation.

If they regret being persuaded, they act like they've been manipulated.

bfaced · 2014-07-02T22:49:11+00:00

Another example of feminism always wanting its cake and eat too. Look at the double standard perpetuated in their insistent that gender differences are a result of nurture only, but still unknowingly concede inherent gender differences by advocating the notion that only scumbags are as physically violent with women as they are with men. So if men and women are truly a blank slate at birth, we should be held by the same standards in everything. You don't see that because they want to have and eat that delicious no accountability princess cake.

PaulRivers10 · 2014-07-03T07:41:05+00:00

A lot of times people accuse others of behaving how they behave. This is because:

They assume that others think the same way they do. People who will resolve their differences with physical fighting will accuse others of starting a fight. People who will do it with social manipulation will accuse others of being socially manipulative. Liars will accuse the other party of lying. Etc.
It puts the other party on the defensive, and makes it harder for the other party to point out what they are doing.
Sometimes it makes the other party try to prove they're not like that - making it even easier for the other party to get away with. Ever accussed something of lying and they become extra truthful? It makes it even easier for the liat to get away with it.

Women as a group - are far more manipulative than men. Is has to do with their social role as a follow - manipulation is how they get things done.

They accuse men of being manipulative because that is how they operate to get sex themselves.

_SEEING_RED · 2014-07-03T20:16:45+00:00

Every interaction between humans, hell even animals or inanimate objects, is manipulation.

fullsarj · 2014-07-03T03:11:11+00:00

Man really feel most of what you said except rofl at >it's almost as if they want to forbid me from visiting the gym. Tbh that sounded pretty dumb.

CheesyWeiner · 2014-07-03T03:22:11+00:00

Why would you want to be the person that women look back poorly on?

What kind of person is ok with knowingly hurting another person like that?

Yes, being an asshole might get you laid, but you're still an asshole. If that's what you want then just admit it openly without trying to disguise it as being ok for so and so reasons.

How about instead of being an asshole you better yourself and interact with people in a confident manner? You don't need to be an asshole to be confident and in control.

Title	Attraction has always been manipulation
Author	deepfriedcocaine
Upvotes	110
Comments	53
Date	July 2, 2014 8:02 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/29ofiz/attraction_has_always_been_manipulation/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/attraction-has-always-been-manipulation.17402 https://theredarchive.com/post/17402

Comments