"Do it for yourself": the pervasive hamster [Reminder post; /u/redpillschool]

IllimitableMan · 2014-09-14T14:22:59+00:00

I'm gonna rant the opposite of OPs preaching because hey that makes shit more interesting. Not to the guys that undervalue the importance of pussy, but to the guys that overvalue the importance of pussy. I mean if we're gonna shit on one camp, fuck it, we may as well shit on the delusion of the other camp whilst we're at it because you're not towing a happy medium. All delusion-based lifestyle choice should be criticised. This is all devils advocate shit, no shots fired at OP because he has a great point, I want to use his topic as a springboard to present a critique of the opposing delusion however. The fixation with pussy like nothing else matters.

Yeah you do it for yourself. You do it for yourself in as much as that YOU want to influence OTHERS to BETTER YOUR life.

If you can fuck bitches, you get an ego boost the way a bitch gets an ego boost from attention.

See the problem with words is I or somebody else says ONE thing and you READ it as meaning another. This is why I have a knack for typing really long posts and trying to be as specific as possible. Because people have a predilection to misunderstand what you mean by interpreting even the most remote ambiguity in your sentiment as meaning something other than you intended and redefining it in their heads to mean what they personally think it meant. So say I say "do it for yourself" someone else takes that to mean "pussy ain't important/you don't need pussy" which isn't what (I personally, would mean) by saying "do it for yourself" but what I meant is "prioritise yourself before you prioritise pussy." You need to build a ship to catch fish you don't fucking go oh hey. I need a fish! Better go fucking dive in that ocean now without my ship built! And what about when you got a huge fucking ship full of fish? Do you need any more fish do you give a fuck about any more fish? If you do? Why? You got loads of fish and a big ass ship so why you so obsessed with the ocean?

I'd say TRP is very "me-centric" it's not all about getting pussy. Pussy is one huge motivator/outcome and unless you're asexual or gay you're lying about not giving a fuck about it. But tbh I don't know what's worse, the guy who gets the bulk of his identity from chatting up girls and getting laid (SINKS serious hours into hooking up) or the guy who insists he never needs to get laid/get female validation. Both are two extremes of one spectrum. You've got yourself the PUA whose mind is overpopulated with thoughts of sex and women, and another guy acting like he doesn't need it at all. Like anything, balance is the key. Someone with a science book comes along and says "yes, but, IllimitableMan, the only reason we exist is to pass our genes on" but that doesn't mean every single thing you do has to be with the sole objective and intention of getting yourself some pussy. Some guys are damaged they're taking themselves out of the race. Most MGTOWs are damaged to the point of throwing in the towel, that's their choice. You don't know the shit they've been through so don't judge 'em, unless they want a second opinion they're making the choice they think is best for their lives. Good on them. Better than being in a dead bedroom useless as fuck marriage. I bet the average MGTOW with even a bit of finance is getting more pussy than your average husband.

People earn money because they want to be comfortable and not suffer. People earn money because they want the power to control others (and yes, sex is a part of that realm of control, but not all of it.) When I get up in the morning and do my morning workout I'm not all giddy thinking (yes, now I've got a better chances with the ladies!) (CRINGE) I do it because it makes me feel good and helps push me through my day and get my shit done.

You can ultimately argue that everything comes down to sex, and if you go far enough down the route of reason you'll find that is correct from a scientific standpoint, but consciously, spiritually in your day-to-day when you're going about your shit, you're not thinking about sex non-stop like that bullshit stereotype about men thinking of sex every X number of seconds suggests. SURE there is a passive benefit of being more attractive to women both in attitude and looks.. but if you think the only reason I'm working out is for the benefit of women out there.. you're crazy. It is ONE REASON. For some guys it is THE MAIN reason. For me personally, it isn't. Self-respect is important, before anything else. If you can't respect your own body how can you respect others to respect it? Guys who were always energetic who then started lifting for lays can't imagine a guy who lifts simply because lifting has helped to stop him from being a lazy lethargic layabout. There are so many benefits to lifting that it's pretty fucking disingenuous to say "guys only lift for pussy" and I get tired of hearing this kind of bullshit. I mean if you get your ass out of your own little world and go talk to other men and hear their problems and worries and shit sex is something they want but a lot of them have a ton of crap to overcome before that and that's what their main priority is in dealing with. Their anxiety. Their poverty. Blah blah blah. This is what I'm talking about when I say build your ship before you go catch fish, or even place too many fucks on fishing. If pussy is your biggest priority/problem in your life, you're in a privileged position, you have it good. Because nothing shittier is happening in your life you can preoccupy it with the leisure activity that is fishing. Every man wants to get laid but not every man is making it the main focus of his life. And to be honest, who the fuck is anyone here to condemn a man who decides "you know what? right now pussy ain't what I need most. later."

Pussy is like call of duty. Overhyped to fuck. The less you have the more you want. Then you get it and you want it and you keep wanting it. Eventually you fuck so much pussy you don't give a fuck about pussy so much anyway. Maybe scientifically this can be explained as your body believing your genes have been successfully passed on and so your fixation with sex is diminished, I don't really know, but there is definitely a "post-pussy wipeout." Virgins can't stop thinking about it, guys with a huge notch count are like "yeah, whatever, it's just pussy."

You know if you get deep with any idea you can say people ONLY do X because of Y. Yeah humans wanna reproduce but we have to prioritise. I don't think a lot of guys on here are even in the position where chasing pussy is optimum for them. They should be doing shit for themselves (which passively makes pussy getting easier) rather than going out and chasing pussy like OMG MY GENETICS. MUST PASS ON. EVERYTHINGS GONNA REVOLVE AROUND GETTING LAYS. BETTER CULTIVATE MYSELF UNTIL PHONE IS BLOWING UP WITH TEXTS FROM PLATES SO I CAN REPLY 3 HOURS LATER USING A HEARTISTE TEMPLATE. There's fucking more to life than that. I derive pleasures from a lot of non-pussy related shit. You can argue all intellectual pursuits come back to trying to impress a mate. But does a bitch understand Schopenhauer or politics or any other crap I find interesting and fuck me because of it? Nah. In fact being too smart damages your attractiveness. We all do shit we like that damages our attractiveness because fuck it, we wanna do it, it's not all about women.

Technically if you've fucked even 1 chick, even with contraception, your body thinks you've passed your genes on. Fucked 30 girls? Your body thinks you have 30 kids out there somewhere. Fucked 2 chicks? Well done, father of two. I can understand the virgin fixation from a biological point of view (OMG MY GENES!) but once you've bust raw in a bitch that biological argument fails. You're just scratching an itch and getting off because it feels good. It feels good because you need the motivation to reproduce and you can't get rid of it, but you can enjoy that feel good without actually having to reproduce, or even fuck bitches (porn/fapping) for example.

You get my drift. PUAs and MGTOWs are the opposite sides of one continuum. Some guys admire women more than others, they're all about the flirting and the beauty and basically.. these guys are the casanovas/lotharios they REALLY LOVE women and as a result a lot of their identity, more so than most mens is placed on women and how women interact with them and how they feel about the women in their life and blah de fucking blah. They're addicted to the game that takes place before sex happens. They're women-centric. Personally I give minimal fucks about women and appreciating them and all that jazz, I think it's romantic bullshit, I'm more interested in philosophy, reading shit from men smarter than me, getting paid and blah blah blah. We've got all different priorities and feelings about women. Some men are a lot more obsessive about women than others. Yes I have a high libido but that doesn't mean I'm gonna be all women-centric about shit. Pump/dump repeat. Rub one out if getting pussy is too much hassle. Whatever. If you're like me, you don't even like most women. You find them fucking annoying. You tolerate them enough to fuck them and then you ditch them because you don't give two cunts about their femininity and the dumb cute shit they say or any of that other crap which tugs on the heartstrings of a playboy who lives for the thrill of securing the lay more than any other shit. Those guys get called sex addicts, I just think they're adrenaline junkies addicted to the tingles a guy gets before he lays a chick. Addicted to the hunt and living for the hunt.

gekkozorz · 2014-09-14T04:07:30+00:00

Yeah, I think this is worth repeating. "Do it for YOU!" is a vague, hollow platitude. If I were living my life only for ME, I'd be a basement-dwelling lardass playing video games all day. Because so long as I'm the only person who's opinion matters, and if I'm happy as a 400 pound vidya addict, why should I make any effort to improve myself?

The fact is, I DO want people to think more highly of me. That's why I work out, practice frame, spin plates, etc. I want to be the kind of person society looks up to as a leader and a role model. I want to be the best man I can possibly be, I am willing to work hard to get there, and that is 100% a product of me wanting people to think highly of me.

Ego can be your downfall or it can be your power source. Some people channel their egos in bad ways and become arrogant pricks. Some people channel it in good ways and becomes society's biggest alphas.

Who you're doing "it" for doesn't matter. What matters is HOW you do it.

FullMetalAsshole · 2014-09-14T06:57:51+00:00

I've been to clubs in multiple cities I've talked to girls in multiple cities. Theyre all the same level of retarded that all the other ones are. I'm not saying this as some fuggo MGTOW. Im a fit dude. I got hoes in different area codes and none of my plates are anything beyond normal. Maybe I'm not successful enough but nothing about me screams external validation unless I'm ball deep in my plates.

I just don't care. Pussy as a whole is secondary to my success as the type of human I want to be.

trafalgar112 · 2014-09-14T07:33:32+00:00

Dude you set the pussy pedestal too high come back down.

metallica11 · 2014-09-14T15:13:10+00:00

And what happens when you see that hot blonde girl when you are a blue-pilled 21 year old that looks like chit and keep getting rejected, so you swear you will improve yourself to attract someone like her.

Then 7 years down the road after hundreds of approaches, a year on tinder swiping 3,000+ women, lifting in the gym 3 time a week, pushing you salary to 95,000 dollars, and hitting some other personal goals of yours that supposedly have the side effect of attracting women, you still have not been able to attract that hot girl that rejected you years prior.

Then a buddy of yours that is broke, lives with his parents, is skinny as phuck, socially awkward, but is good looking and has a nice jaw ends up getting laid with one of these girls at least a few times a year by not trying at all.

Then you ask your guys friends and a few close, blunt female friends you know are closer to red pill ideology and dishing out the brutal truth - that you are just simply unattractive, despite having everything else going for you, years of guided self improvement, and there is really nothing you can do about it to change it short of plastic surgery. You realize that no one "deserves" sex or attention from the opposite sex, and there is nothing worse than an unattractive person bitching about how he can't get another unattractive person. And you can't seem to just be with someone who is not attractive, even if you are not attractive yourself. Some people can, but you can't. Watching porn is better. So you reserve yourself to working on your goals, and treat your sex drive like a annoying pet, feeding it the bare minimum (watching porn quickly) to get rid of the "itch" so you can move on to your own goals.

I have been dealing with this for 7+ years. I Can get girls fine, but they are all overweight/sub-par (4/10-5/10). once they reach "cute" status all bets are off. I feel ashamed after I sleep with them, moreso than jacking off. This is why I am entertaining MGTOW for my own life. I know people are going call me "spineless" and "not wanting to put in the effort", but I have put in the effort, and from a business perspective the cost-benefit has been absolutely horrendous.

Teeklin · 2014-09-14T15:19:38+00:00

There is no shame, there is no good, there is no bad, there's no right way or wrong way, there are only those who succeed, and those who fail.

Yeah, that's how a sociopath thinks.

trafalgar112 · 2014-09-14T14:47:56+00:00

People do need validation. This is half the truth. The other half is people don't need validation in all areas of life.

A person who knows their good at lifting weights doesn't need validation, unless he is insecure.

He may need validation when doing something he's not confident in.

Another flaw is that men don't only want sex. Sex is a small part of what men desire from women. Men truly seek a male-mother need. Instead of screaming at men to workout, shower, shave, get a career, and get everything in order for a women, realize that she can only provide a small portion of what a man wants.

If you are willing to do all that for pussy, congrats on contending for the ultimate mangina. While true alphas only workout and get a career for you know themselves.

down_with_whomever · 2014-09-14T04:45:36+00:00

This is a very good point, and I think at its core it relates to the difficulty in admitting fault in ourselves.

It's difficult to say, "I'm bad at X, I've been unsuccessful at it, and if I try I'll probably fail." It feels so uncomfortable for us to say this about something important - so we try to reframe the issue in our minds to avoid saying such a thing.

But we have to be able to calmly admit our faults in order to fix them. Don't lie to yourself about it. Don't say, "I'm not going to go for girls because sex isn't important to me." Of course sex is important to you. Instead, rationally admit "I'm not going to go for girls because I'll fail, and I'll fail because these aspects of my SMV are not up to par," then make a plan to fix those aspects, and stick to the plan.

xantris · 2014-09-14T11:02:25+00:00

There is a difference between working hard for something you want and working really hard because you think it's a biological imperative.

I work hard for good money so I can live the life I want to live. I'm happy, I enjoy a nice balance. I'm not going to fucking kill myself for great money and then not be able to enjoy it because it's taking excessive amounts of time, stress, and effort. The same thing goes for women.

The stupid idea that you shouldn't care what others think of you to "feel good about yourself" is precisely what women tell each other so they'll eat another pint of fucking ice cream and take themselves out of the running, making way for real contenders who don't fall victim to that stupid shit.

This is women's way of validating each-other. I don't really think guys have the same dynamic. I honestly don't give two shits about what anyone thinks of me, and if I say "I'm doing this because it's something I want to do for me", there isn't any gray area. I haven't needed or desired external validation since I was blue pill. So by your line of reasoning, I should be pretty miserable, but that's definitely not the case.

If you want to be a hard charger and that's what you get off on, go for it man. It definitely has it's rewards, but it also has a hell of a lot of downside. Social dynamics are a part of TRP, but this comes off more as social zealotry. In fact, it sounds a lot like a woman's line of thought written down without bullshit clogging their true message.

jimpz · 2014-09-14T13:11:00+00:00

I think the issue here is that both ideas are on the opposite ends of the trp spectrum. Both have good points but too much of it are not healthy (one is not getting pussy & not improving yourself to the best of your potential, the other is pussy pedestalling & having the need to be validated all the time). I think having balance of both is the key.

ogrethebuffoon · 2014-09-14T19:12:08+00:00

It's just like there's no such thing as true altruism. We do things for others because it will (or we think it will) make us feel better either immediately or in a future state.

Improve yourself because you will feel better if you do for a variety of reasons. You will feel better about yourself just looking in the mirror or in the privacy of your own thoughts and because you will get positive reactions from those you have an interest in (mostly other people with high SMV i.e. hot women).

You will also feel more significant when comparing yourself to others that you've surpassed. Don't deny that this is enjoyable and a valid motivation. It comes with the cost of others being jealous and trying to take you down a notch but it's a small price to pay.

Manuel_S · 2014-09-14T19:13:19+00:00

I see it as a dog-eat-tail argument.

Other's opinion of me influence my success (professional and sex)
My success influences my well-being
My well-being improves my drive to improve myself (fitness, confidence and so on)
My self improvement influences other's opinion of me

So - its all for me, or all to influence others? Its a circular thing. Improve one part, improve the whole in a way.

Psychologically, humans are hugely attuned to the group, and having a good position within it is important for our internal well-being. So - do not dismiss improving so others raise their opinions of you.

mbillion · 2014-09-14T21:17:11+00:00

I agree, external validation is extremely important to me. Not because I am vain, but because it is the best and most direct reflection of if your self improvement efforts are working

[deleted] · 2014-09-14T16:04:31+00:00

I think it's so funny people here derive so much of their own self and worth from their interactions with women, they just can't think other men can derive their own image from other things.

"Oh hey, I'll only respect you if you call yourself MGTOW after having sex with 50 different chicks!"

What does this say about you? You can only respect someone who lives his life the way you want to live? You're just projecting your conceptions on other people.

Also, if someone just wants to cop out of the game, what do you think this says about him? Maybe he's damaged, maybe he has some issues to deal and don't want to hassle of women. What do you know? I don't know. If that's what he wants, then he's better off doing what he thinks is right, even if it doesn't match what herd culture tells him. Maybe when he's better off he will eventually try to get some pussy, but if he's in a state where he just can't stand women, why try to force him down a path he doesn't want to go now?

And even then, my point stands, I disagree with OP: You may want to use pussy as one of your motivators, but that's not what leads people to greatness. Newton didn't create calculus and shit to impress pussy, Galilei didn't study the stars to impress pussy, any great athlete isn't training just thinking about some random hoe he will bang the next day, you need to do better to really excell.

I think thats one of the motives why women are attracted to higher value men, because, after they get their shit together and move on with their lives, that's when women want them. You may "fake it till you make it" and start pouding pussy today, but you'll be as empty inside as when you were before. So if you want to advance your career, focus on other things and evolve as a human being, I say go for it, fuck other's opinions and yes, do it for yourself.

And besides, if you derive so much of yourself from others, what will happen when people abandon you? You'll just start looking for other people to validate your own existence? I think motivation, true motivation has to come from within, as cheesy as that may sound.

DasWood · 2014-09-14T05:57:21+00:00

More and more mras and mgtow have been infiltrating this subreddit. If you comment that goes against mras or mgtow prepare to get downvoted - even if it is factually accurate.

I had considered unsubbing from this subreddit because it seems more and more like the groupthink you get some the sjw subs like trollx et al.

[deleted] · 2014-09-14T21:43:50+00:00

There is a drive that most men have, to varying degrees, that addicts us to sex, to the pursuit of sex and beautiful women. And for a lot of us, we recognize this and do what it takes to accomplish the goals of attaining these things.

Ever since I've stopped masturbating, this drive has started to transition into a desire for...power rather than sex. This power is something I seek to acquire through fitness, education, and mastery of my biology. Is this just a modification of the sex-drive, stimulated by it running at over-drive, or something else entirely?

IllimitableMan · 2014-09-14T09:45:58+00:00

I always felt like MGTOW was an easy way out for the people who couldn't get laid anyway.

Locastor · 2014-09-14T06:21:34+00:00

Numbers are factual, and legitimate and masculine.

How much you do squat and dead, in pounds?

How much free cash is sitting in your main account, in dollars? (Bonus: how many accounts do you have with a balance over $500?)

How tall are you, in inches and feet? (You can't change this one, so I know it can hurt, but it's a number too)

How many non-pros did you fuck this year?

Men don't fear numbers, and if they don't like their own, they fix them with their own efforts.

ondypondy · 2014-09-14T04:13:47+00:00

Bodybuilding, making money and cultivating a sense of humor are good things, no doubt capable of solving many problems - however, if I am going to strive for validation, shouldn't it be from history? i.e. trying to contribute to something which has a chance to genuinely improve humanity's lot?

Mizerableman · 2014-09-14T05:42:54+00:00

People who think of becoming Einstein are a joke. It's like wanting to become Jesus. The greatest people are simply great and imagining your great book will be on any significant level is another type of masturbation.

The only reason to ignore women is a temporary shock. Specifically for supplicating betas who give bitches everything. The end goal here is to become awesome rather than avoid things that give you trouble aka women. However, even here people are scared to take chances and rather pretend they tried than actually try.

Title	"Do it for yourself": the pervasive hamster [Reminder post; /u/redpillschool]
Author	TRPsubmitter
Upvotes	112
Comments	43
Date	September 14, 2014 3:57 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2gcf06/do_it_for_yourself_the_pervasive_hamster_reminder/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/do-it-for-yourself-the-pervasive-hamster-reminder.21079 https://theredarchive.com/post/21079

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