Lurker's first post here, some thoughts.

SkorchZang · 2015-11-08T06:17:49+00:00

My experience has been that if you're in LTR, most women need a little vulnerability here and there. But never the gushing blue pill kind. You still have to be the man. Understand why they need the vulnerability - it's not because they want to snuggle your deep quivering inner soul, it's because vulnerable spots are where they sink their emotional claws in when the situation calls for it. If she has no idea about your vulnerable spots, she will be unconsciously restless and feel vulnerable herself. It's her way of being in control.

If you don't quite understand all the subtleties of what the difference is between red pill and blue pill vulnerability game (and let's face it, no recovering bluepiller here did right from the get-go), then the closest you can get to "correct RP vulnerability" is by simply faking the whole thing on purpose. You give your lady controlled and faked vulnerability moments in small doses, and then appear to dominate/win the shit out of the "issues" anyway. The fact that the entire issue was fake and you never had a real problem only helps you appear more powerful. As a result, she is happy and eager to please.

You can keep your deep conversations, I still do. But do always keep in mind, these do not turn women on the way blue pillers always think they do. If you're having deep conversations, that's for your ego and your enjoyment, not hers - she's playing along and slowly getting tired of this bullshit. Do not ask women if they like deep conversation, their answer will always be "omg yes!", but what they actually mean by "deep conversation" will shock you with its solipsistic selfish spin and striking similarity to plain old gossip. Your deep conversation is not her deep conversation. Hers will always be about HER, and nothing whatsoever else is a subject of any interest. This is not a shortcoming or a bug, it's how women are, how they need to be. They are not deep creatures. Who are we kidding, women are not even shallow.

I get what your real question here is, "so you're saying, I cannot ever lean on a woman emotionally? Ever? My entire picture of relationships was that I would get to lean on a woman, and she would love me?". That's exactly what TRP is saying, yup. You can never do it, it's off the table. A man does not lean on women for support, it's the women that lean on him. This simple truth was self evident to everyone just 1-2 generations back, and it's a testament to the quality brainwashing men today are getting, that it's a big deal to us, having to learn about this the hard way & have it seem like a tragic earth-shattering disappointment. It isn't that bad, cheer up, you're a man and can easily take it, plus more, and not even flinch.

ThereAndBlackAgain · 2015-11-08T02:12:39+00:00

Read up son, the vulnerability deal has been covered: weakness is fine when it is a crack in your armour that she can look through to reaffirm you're still actually human in there. But it must come from a place of strength. There is a huge difference between Arnold Schwarzenegger talking about something that makes him scared and a neckbeard bawling out how embarrassing it is that he likes getting pegged or whatever. So where you're coming from is important.

But what you are vulnerable about is, unfortunately, also important. One of the hard truths to swallow is that there are just some things you will never be able to do and say around women. Whether it's a man thing (want to talk about your harrowing experience in the army? tough shit) or simply something too heavy (family member just died? also tough shit), you simply cannot appeal to a level of understanding that will register with them. Only light shit, and only to remind them that you may be a rock, but even rocks can crumble.

We often advocate that you follow the trends men naturally eke out when developing support structures for themselves - tight knit, small groups of other men that you are very close with, who you can talk to in privacy without anyone observing or controlling what gets said. "Male Spaces". If you take women's voyeuristic advice on letting out your feelings willy nilly, or that not doing so is "toxic masculinity" and will make you "bottle up" and "explode", you'll find yourself not only losing social standing, but also feeling worse about yourself. Women are happy to spread their problems around their vast social networks, but to you it's just a reminder that you haven't fixed something - failure, for men. As men we're designed to take our problems and crush them into fuel for those internal engines that drive us. Some things you can't chew, those are for your close buddies, but everything else is yours to crunch. Not anyone else's, and definitely not women's.

Or as I like to say, men and women find strength the same way. They both look to men.

[deleted] · 2015-11-08T06:18:40+00:00

[permanently deleted]

je_dois · 2015-11-08T01:15:11+00:00

Yes, in many cases it is possible to be open and vulnerable with a woman while holding frame.

It's highly contextual though. Opening up to her about your father's death, or your feelings on overcoming cancer is fine. Complaining about being overlooked for a promotion or being bullied in junior high is not.

It's also highly dependent on how you act around her the majority of time. If you're doing it all the time it'll just come off as weak.

Only open up to women that have proven their worth to you. It's okay to be a little beta 10% of the time if you're alpha for the other 90%. In fact I'd say it's a requirement for healthy LTR.

ELIBakken · 2015-11-08T01:53:49+00:00

LTR will test you every step of the way. Hold frame at all times. They only care about you in the moment. If things go sour they will use everything they can against you. I've been married for 14 years and I still don't completely trust my wife and never will. Don't get me wrong, I have no regrets and I'm proud of our relationship. She has the loaded gun and I stay on my game

rRaptorJesus · 2015-11-08T13:59:48+00:00

Hey man, my advice would be to start lifting, get in to some martial arts (fighting), and get on to an approach program like RSD or goodlookingloser.

6 months to a year of that and I'm willing to bet you will be able to answer your own questions for yourself better than any of us could.

aDrunkenWhaler · 2015-11-08T06:05:15+00:00

Why do you need to open up to someone on that level, just 'to enjoy this moment of openess'? If you're looking for a connection, there are countless other better ways to have it with her. If you need advice and reason, talk to a male friend. If you need evaluation or understanding, get a shrink. Or meditate and suck it all in. Why shoud she know about your problems? And why do you feel the need to tell her your weeknesses or fears?

FortunateBum · 2015-11-10T04:58:10+00:00

If your status is far above hers, for instance, you're a billionaire and she's not, then yes.

If you and her are normal people, matched in status, fuck no.

0xdada · 2015-11-09T01:13:01+00:00

There is a difference in your experience of the world between being beta and essentially alpha, where when you are beta, your experience is incomplete without some reflection or sharedness with another person. The beta/co-dependent experience is this merging of who you are with who she is under the auspices of "love," to which the sacrifice of your independent, solitary self to another, is the catalyst that ignites something greater than merely the sum of your individual experiences. This is the seduction we buy into, and in the moment it seems like the only thing worth living for, but that's the trick. It's a surprisingly small part of living.

When you have left that behind, you begin to experience women as "other," instead of an inextricable extension of yourself as perceived through what you imagined to be love. Psychologically it's a child's view of the world, where our existence is in symbiosis to a woman (our mother). As a beta, your identity is fundamentally, "un-weaned," from what is essentially your mother's frame. In that state, you are only ever as much as a woman thinks of you. Your development is arrested, and you are still a child. As I said before, women raise children, not men. Only men can make other men.

The good news is you were just high, literally, on oxytocin. But like being high, there are greater and more satisfying experiences in life than those you have on various oxy/adrenaline/serotonin enhancers. It sounds dark and meaningless, but actually it's the opposite. There is much more to life than you can even begin to comprehend, and to think that it could be captured in a pop song or sentimentality is to underestimate it on a level that, in hindsight, is kind of hilarious.

I guarantee you will be surprised.

It's been less than a year since I've read this stuff in its current form, but I had over a decade of pre-exposure to it from friends who were living its endgame by example so it fell into place pretty quick.

Read the stoics, they figured it out a few millennia ago and weren't all wrapped up in the modern intellectual shit of the transcendentalists and existentialists. It seems scary at first, but imagine what life would be like if you hadn't figured this out.

Title	Lurker's first post here, some thoughts.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	8
Comments	13
Date	November 8, 2015 12:24 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3ry8s8/lurkers_first_post_here_some_thoughts/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/lurkers-first-post-here-some-thoughts.37938 https://theredarchive.com/post/37938

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