Possible contradictions within the red pill?

SpawnQuixote · 2013-04-30T09:19:45+00:00

Having sex with girls reduces their value or Having sex with girls doesn't reduce their value

Marriage value vs. short relationship value

Classic RedPill thought states that girls who have sex with lots of men have lower value as a long term mate.

Many actually think this, I don't, but let's go on assuming it is so, because then it gets interesting:

That got me wondering then, is having sex with girls immoral?

What would be immoral in helping people consensually reduce their LTR value? It would be immoral only in the sense of a used car dealer asking a too high price of a dumb customer: not really immoral at all, just business.

The instant response is no, because women can choose, and they're choosing an action which hurts themselves. BUT, the Red Pill also states that women's mating instincts are programmed and can be manipulated.

Crucial misunderstanding. Only the same way and level programmed as men's instincts are. And men can be gamed too, for example by women wearing revealing clothing, make-up etc. - women have a very long, old, well documented body of seduction techniques as well, all that happened that men started to develop their own too. The same way as a man is programmed to find a scantily clad woman arousing but can still have free will and choose not to cheat on his wife, same for women.

What are your ideas on this? It just seems there's no strong argument that sleeping with lots of girls and redpill knowledge is moral.

Depending on how strict your morals are. The female version of the same game would be roughly this: a not very attractive woman using scant clothing, make-up, other techniques to make a man marry him, then feed him to be fat so lose his attractiveness, make him invest his resources into the marriage, then get fat and shut down sex and enjoy the comfort. That would be the exact parallel: gaming a man to lose his sexual marketplace value with a less than ideal partner, and not be able to get what he wants anymore. Is this immoral? Dunno, but happens all the time, kinda normal.

abovefate · 2013-04-30T03:32:11+00:00

I'm not here for morals. That time has long since past, while doing me little good.

Demonspawn · 2013-04-30T04:05:12+00:00

Prisoner's dilemma and Tragedy of the Commons.

What's beneficial for one individual person isn't necessarily beneficial to all of society.

baconOclock · 2013-04-30T03:53:53+00:00

Having sex with girls reduces their value or Having sex with girls doesn't reduce their value

Value is subjective and also situationa, so I won't get into that.

It can only be said that if you're getting a virgin, there's a lower risk that she is bearing an offspring that is not yours and this could explain a certain innate aversion men have towards heavy investment into promiscuous women.

You also have to understand the concept of short term mating strategy versus long term mating strategy and how, if given the opportunity, men can have a mixed mating strategy with heavy investment into a chosen female on one side but also minimal investment with other females that are willing to select him for his favourable attributes regardless of being able to secure investment.

is having sex with girls immoral?

Lost me right there. I take an amoral approach and moral judgement has no intrinsic value to understanding.

The instant response is no, because women can choose, and they're choosing an action which hurts themselves.

How and what makes you say that or what makes you think you understand their motivation? And prove it at least with a logical argument and try to expose causes and effects.

RedditBlueit · 2013-04-30T19:58:23+00:00

I'd argue that the Red Pill is knowledge - a theory of how men and women behave and why. As such, it is neither moral nor immoral. How you use that knowledge could be moral or immoral, based on your values and beliefs.

Ill_mumble_that · 2013-04-30T05:57:25+00:00

women's mating instincts are programmed and can be manipulated.

It is impossible to trick someone into having sex with you.

Any girl that dresses up and goes out to a meat market (club, bar, etc) is expecting to meet a man, and probably get laid. Theredpill makes it so that you are that man. The morals are left on the women out there seeking the D.

2013-04-30T04:03:22+00:00

There's two kinds of statements in philosophy. Normative statements involve right and wrong and the way things should be. Positivist statements describe reality without those constraints.

The red pill is not a normative set of beliefs. That's why there are so many factions in the androsphere regarding how it should be used.

redpillschool · 2013-04-30T13:18:14+00:00

You've shown me the light, you're right, sex with girls is immoral. Human race should stop now.

favours_of_the_moon · 2013-04-30T11:29:52+00:00

If a girl is a dipshit, that lowers her value to me.

If she is sexy, that increases her value to me.

I don't really give a shit how many dicks she's sucked.

2013-04-30T16:30:08+00:00

In my opinion, the red pill implies that there's really no such thing as morality. That's not to say that I don't do my best to abide by the golden rule, but I know it's "blue pill" idealism. I believe in spirit, but I believe in physical, biological reality as well, and since we exist in this physical, biological reality, I know I can't reason with it. Things just simply are as they are. We evolved certain behaviors to survive and project our species into the future, and many go against morality. Does this mean that there are circumstances in which it is morally wrong to continue ones existence, or to reproduce? Perhaps, but we are biologically hardwired to do these things, they are very hard to overcome.

tl;dr, do what makes you happy, just try no to be a cunt about it

WorkThrow99 · 2013-04-30T17:16:38+00:00

Red Pill also states that women's mating instincts are programmed and can be manipulated.

Not that they can be manipulated, but it's easier to sell something if you show what the buyer wants. I am fun, and if they are looking for fun, there's no reason to show how serious I can also be. This doesn't make it amoral. It's not manipulation, because that would mean faking something, or lying and deceiving.

What's amoral is thinking that guys putting their best foot forward somehow removes agency from women.

Of course, knowing what people like, and what they are naturally attracted to could be used to lie and deceive, like saying you make more money than you actually do, but I personally don't endorse any posts that say you should be lying.

Whisper · 2013-04-30T12:29:18+00:00

Classic RedPill thought states that girls who have sex with lots of men have lower value as a long term mate.

You're confusing correlation with causality.

Low SMV in women is correlated with lots of sexual partners. That does not mean having sex with a man lowers her SMV.

That got me wondering then, is having sex with girls immoral?

Immoral? Moral? According to whom?

Absolute moralities are just another blue pill, peddled by those who want you to be obedient to their version of "good" (which means "good for them").

You, for instance, are peddling another male-threat narrative.

The instant response is no, because women can choose, and they're choosing an action which hurts themselves.

BUT, the Red Pill also states that women's mating instincts are programmed and can be manipulated.

Female-hypoagency narrative. Women are just as responsible for the outcomes of their instinctive actions as men are.

omashupicchu · 2013-04-30T15:37:44+00:00

TRP exists because society exists between the phases of traditional mating and gender role elimination. (Not that I think that will ever happen, but they try.)

The supposed paradoxes within TRP come from the opposing points of view of traditionalism and egalitarianism. TRP does not definitively say that slutty women are right or wrong, only that this situation is thus, and here is how we should behave in order to capitalize on it.

To me, TRP is a good answer to the question that rattles around in my head any time I listen to a feminist: So, should we be men or should we be boys? Do we continue liking what we like, or do we change ourselves completely to give you what you want? Because as soon as we change ourselves, bam, we become undesirable to them. That's the essence of being beta.

Title	Possible contradictions within the red pill?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	2
Comments	30
Date	April 30, 2013 3:11 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1ddy9g/possible_contradictions_within_the_red_pill/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/possible-contradictions-within-the-red-pill.4154 https://theredarchive.com/post/4154

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