Question on children and divorce

Alpha_Jedi · 2017-05-22T17:14:13+00:00

You should look into Private Marriage, it's a nice way to have that relationship status without all the legal BS that comes with traditional marriage. As far as getting to that point goes, there's nothing wrong with wanting to be a father, a lot of guys want it but the hardest part is handling the female side of things. This is why vetting and Frame which are essential in an relationship, become much more critical in an LTR, especially when kids are involved. You might want to consider going the Private Marriage or LTR route without the legal contractual marriage aspect, because without that contract in place there is a bit of Dread game that can be run to keep her invested in the LTR. Best of luck in your future pursuits.

MattyAnon · 2017-05-22T18:36:07+00:00

. But it doesn't mesh with one of my goals in life.

Women and the state leverage your optimism and turn it into obligation.

I want to be a father, and to that end I want to be with a woman who is willing to take care of that kid with me.

Good. Agree a parental provisioning plan with her, and don't offer her a boatload of cash to leave you. If she requires marriage as part of the deal, find someone else who doesn't.

So how do I reconcile wanting a partner to stick around to help with child-rearing, with the dangers of getting married?

Start by not paying her to leave, which is what marriage is.

In my state, if you cohabitate with someone long enough, you are common-law married and they have the right to half your stuff.

Move.

Is it just something you are open and honest about, and hope they are open to the idea? Or is it just that you have to be prepared to leave, even with a kid involved, and commit to doing what is best for the kid?

You need to be honest about your plans and what you'll expect. Never even mention marriage. If she brings it up, ask her what the advantages of marriage are. She'll go on about security and trust. Say it doesn't work for you and refuse to do it.

Yes you have to be prepared to leave. If you are not prepared to leave, she will increase the amount she exploits you, using sex as a reward if you're lucky... and nagging as a punishment if you're not. You ALWAYS have to be prepared to leave, otherwise women will walk all over you. You "trying to make it work" will get turned into her "trying to get more resources". Women are utterly selfish and corrupt when it comes to negotiation with people without options. They have zero concern for you. If you can't leave, she will act without mercy and without care.

The parenting plan will include provision for separation. You will always keep your options elsewhere. If thinks suck, you leave and enact the plan you laid out.

sd4c · 2017-05-22T21:25:05+00:00

I have some thoughts on this:

1) Build power, by making money, building social connections, your health, and your skillset. Don't bother with women before then. When you're about 30, start looking. Because if she's not 5-10 years younger than you, your attraction will wane quite strongly when you hit 40, 50, 60 together. A man's SMV peaks at about age 34-36.

2) Focus on vetting, this is crucial for your goal of raising a family. Try to find a woman whose family is intact, or at least was intact through her formative years. A woman who grew up without a Dad will instinctively consider fathers superfluous and redundant. You want a chick who couldn't imagine raising kids without a Dad, because she knows no other way.

3) Make sure that your main contribution to the family isn't money- but time, supervision, stoicism, humor, and strength. Be such a good dad that your woman knows replacing your presence with a monthly check would be a bad deal for the kids.

4) That being said, have two or three kids as soon as possible. Each child is only 50% of her genetic expression. Only with two kids does their survival value match her own. Three or more, and she will value their well-being, above her own.

5) You have to make it a better deal for her to remain with you and married to you, than to divorce you (and thus get 1/2 your assets and up to 68% of your income). By divorcing you, she will also suddenly be rendered single, and thus able to hook up with (and get impregnated by) other men- all while enjoying cash from you. Remember, she wants to maximize her reproductive potential. So be richer, smarter, better-liked, and more attractive than her- so that she continues to see being with you as the best deal available to her for the duration of her reproductive years. This may mean waiting, leaving the country, dating "down", or relocating. Whatever you do, make sure you hold all of the cards- or at least most of them- financially, socially, and emotionally. She already has the upper hand legally, in most of the world. Until that changes, if you want a lasting family, you better know her better than you know yourself.

ImHerWonderland · 2017-05-22T23:13:16+00:00

You have to be prepared to leave. Always.

I have been doing great with my wife/ex-wife whatever the fuck she is now lately. Absolutely great. Why? Because after she threw me in jail I went to Florida, to my dad, told him he was right and I was a dumbass and asked him to take me back. And he did. I stopped calling her every night. When she said the only way I'd see my child is with a police officer present, I'd say okay, then hang up. I stopped arguing. I focused on my goals, which right now is to make money so I can provide for my kid. As soon as my focus shifted away from her, and she realized that the manipulation and the mind games wouldn't work, her whole demeanor changed. She's now very sweet, and wants to fix everything.

Thankfully, I turned twenty not long ago, so I'm able to (at least I think I am) bounce back from losing "everything" I owned. As sweet as she is now I know it'll never be the same and that I'm going to truly avoid marriage and serious relationships for the rest of my life.

I'm grateful to have a child, even if the mom is crazy. Even if we end up having to move the kid back and forth to visit. And that's selfish of me. Sometimes when you give into your human desires, you have to face those consequences and pursue the hard right over the easy wrong.

edit: Everyone is different, every relationship is different. I read redpill, I thought I was good, game was spot on. I was a fucking dumbass, and I learned the hard way. Don't be me.

Entropy-7 · 2017-05-23T04:14:52+00:00

You should consult a lawyer in your jurisdiction. I some places there is a bias against unmarried fathers (even moreso than against men/fathers in general). In the event of divorce it can be easier to get shared/joint custody if you are married to the mother or at least living together. You have to offset the financial risks of getting tagged with a division of property and alimony (or equivalent) so make sure you have a prenup or cohabitation agreement. Vet your potential partner for having an earning potential similar to yours and for any potential mental problems that might cause her to make false accusations in the event of divorce. Don't allow her to be the primary caregiver; you have to take an active role with the child(ren) and spend as much time with them as she does.

This is far from an ideal marriage but it tends to be the lowest-risk option for having children and limits your downside in the event of divorce.

But again, check with a lawyer to get some proper advice.

idgaf- · 2017-05-23T06:23:30+00:00

I'm quite similar to you and it's refreshing to see someone else very confident in this disposition.

Honestly, it will be tougher. It will be life on hard mode, maybe impossible. It is easier to spin plates, but maybe you and I have decided it's less fulfilling. We've only got one life so we've gotta go after what we want. There are many, many moments that make parenting worth it, but it comes with huge sacrifice.

First, understand, manage, and accept the worst-case scenarios. 20% of your income to child support in case of separation. 5% for each additional child. A good chunk of cash for divorce & lawyers. A prenup or avoidance of marriage should prevent alimony. You need to be confident you can live content in this scenario. Learn to live with less. Less materialism. Less free time. More giving freely to your kids. I think the vast majority of guys who find this unappealing should not become parents. It is a significant step in our life's spiritual journey where decide to let go of pleasures and comforts, and become prepared to give everything toward some other purpose.

Second, while TRP paints a bleak picture, I believe there are still some quality girls out there. You'll have to vet hard and vet many, and search outside of the usual hookup places. And, have a strong enough frame / lifestyle to mold them into good partners. Easier said than done, yeah.

Good luck, man.

GayLubeOil · 2017-05-23T10:17:06+00:00

There can be no divorce if one day you leave your family and never return. When your oldest is about 8 and your wife is approaching the point of no return naggyness ~35 tell your kid that you are a government assassin and that you don't think you will make it back from this one.

Then fly to Thailand and fuck cheap Asian hookers for the rest of your life. Make sure to check if they have a penis. Those Thais can be sneeky penis hiders.

If you get a Thai Hooker pregnant fly to Brazil.

vengefully_yours · 2017-05-22T18:43:56+00:00

Well kid, I'd say never marry. I know exactly how easy it is for any girl to decide to fuck you over.

Even my friend Chad who is tall, good looking, alpha as fuck, and has a hot wife 12 years younger than he is, saw that his wife was eyeing me up. He uses dread, lots of it, to keep her ass in check. He can replace her easily, she can't replace him easily because she has 4 kids with him, most guys are beta losers around them, and Chad has money. Her best option is to stay and try to keep him happy. She bends over backwards for him and overlooks his dalliance with other girls. She still looked at me with that hungry need more alpha cock expression. If I could and would support her and her kids, she would jump.

There just might be a man out there who she will jump to, or Chad could get sick, get hurt, any number of things and her bar then lowers enough that you could fuck her.

Chances are if you have kids, they will be put through the same hell you were. Not by you, but by their mother. She has every incentive to do it, all you can do is dread the fuck out of her and be the absolute best and highest smv you can. Even then, she might go stupid and burn it all to the ground for no apparent reason.

You will not be part of your kid's life. If you are, it will be limited. Some other asshole will be there treating your kids like shit, possibly molesting them since girls are shit judges of make character.

Go ahead though. I never wanted kids, but have them now. They're expensive and full of drama, but I'm glad I got to meet them.

chachaChad · 2017-05-22T17:51:47+00:00

I had suicidal thoughts

You're not even close to ready to have a real relationship. Don't even think about kids. Unless, you work some stuff out you're setting yourself up to repeat your parents divorce.

Get yourself into therapy and work all this out now.

Andreas1871 · 2017-05-22T21:30:05+00:00

If you do go through a separation, you will pay child support regardless of whether you are married or not. Or she will pay child support to you if the child or children live most of the time with you. There is just no way around that, and also it's not wrong, because children do need food, clothes, etc.

Pastelitomaracucho · 2017-05-23T09:38:43+00:00

Get real. A woman that will stick with you through the whole time that will take you to raise your kid probably does not exist.

If you are going to have kids with a Western woman, have always an exit strategy that considers how will you be there for your kid when divorce comes.

Another option is to marry and have kids with a woman close to her 40's and with most of the cock carousel already ridden along with a good part of her career achievements being completed.

whatsthisgarg · 2017-05-22T18:16:51+00:00

Another guy who wants kids. Wut? Get ready for the grinding monotony of hanging out with an imbecile who shits his pants. And when a woman pops out an adorable baby, who do you think she's going to decide is more important, you or the kid? LOL

Having a woman stick around for decades, AND be motivated to stay hot and attracted to you, IN THIS DAY AND AGE, you have about a 1 in 1,000 chance of finding one. I'm looking at the current younger generation through my nieces and nephews and younger cousins and their friends. I see ONE successful, happy couple, and the woman is, quite frankly, UGLY. Interesting, but just a dog. All the attractive women have torpedoed the relationships and taken the kids. Good luck.

gideon_zotero · 2017-05-23T10:21:51+00:00

So how do I reconcile wanting a partner to stick around to help with child-rearing, with the dangers of getting married?

Stop being on a spectrum. Let me be clear...child rearing is hard as fuck. You need to have perfect frame to not let all the sleepless nights, high costs and emotional torment of the little bugger crush your wife mentally. You are not lesbian mommies that freak out and "raise the kid toghether"

Before any of that is even remotely possible you need to become a real alpha. A man that spins plates, has his shit toghether and doesn't break a sweat even if he is butfucking elton john in a arabian mosque.

Once a woman has a kid with you, you fooled her. Her body is saying...this is the best choice. To keep her from leaving, you need to actually be that best choice. Unlike relationships or marriage, after a couple had children, the woman only leaves if after the mother of all shit tests(a child first 3 years) the dad is a left a shell of a man, a nodding purse holder. (caveat, sometimes the women crack, but those are honestly the women that had issues beforehand but everyone passed them along as just jenny being jenny - if you avoid having kids with anyone you wouldn't fuck sober, you should be ok)

Title	Question on children and divorce
Author	whenyesterdaywemet
Upvotes	12
Comments	37
Date	May 22, 2017 4:20 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/6co8qd/question_on_children_and_divorce/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/question-on-children-and-divorce.43422 https://theredarchive.com/post/43422

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