"Models" Conundrum

Marcus1138 · 2017-08-21T02:34:05+00:00

The effect of vulnerability is different depending on your status. (Of course, different people will also see vulnerability differently. People have different reactions to different things, so everything I say here is a generalization and there will be outliers of all kinds.)

Anyways, vulnerability. Vulnerability can do two things - it can make you look weaker, or it can make you look stronger. The trick is knowing what it'll do for you.

If a loser expresses vulnerability, now they're just a loser who's even weaker than before. No one cares about Beta Bill's struggle with gaming addiction, they'll just avoid him even more than before.

But what if a highly respected guy expresses vulnerability? That's different. That's Eminem laying bare his shitty circumstances and showing how he fought his way to the top. That's the college quarterback revealing that he has a hard time with long division or whatever. You don't lose respect for these people, you respect them more for being willing to break the wall that separates them from ordinary people and share with you.

Now, for the normal dude, this can swing both ways. A vulnerability might push you into loser-dom, in fact that's generally what will happen.

Most guys on TRP are normal guys or worse. They're too vulnerable, and they need to learn to keep their problems to themselves and deal with them (or seek professional help for health issues). But when you get to the point where people actually respect you, a little vulnerability makes you more human and actually makes you even more attractive.

Pitchfork51 · 2017-08-21T03:04:23+00:00

He means not being afraid to approach or ask a girl out.

He wasnt referring to vomiting your feelings up.

Approaching a girl in a bar or asking a girl out leaves you vulnerable to rejection, shame, etc.

LanBearPig · 2017-08-21T02:45:33+00:00

No matter how many times you read theory, nothing will really connect until you experience it for yourself. I followed this rule for the longest time and everything went well. Then like every other idiot I thought I could make an exception. Felt the burn for that decision when everything they said would happen happened.

You could take all of the information you've learned here and apply it blindly and succeed through the wisdom of others. You could also go against it and see for yourself. Lessons are more internalized through pain.

ScottDurden · 2017-08-21T05:07:21+00:00

I can't bring myself to read this book as the whole premise just screams beta to me.

The idea of being vulnerable & honest with girls conflicts with every other aspect of my game.

88Will88 · 2017-08-21T08:26:54+00:00

It means Mark Manson is talking out his ass

oldredder · 2017-08-21T11:33:25+00:00

A woman needs to feel you've done this even if you don't actually do it.

It's called acting.

Spongthrowaway · 2017-08-21T02:29:48+00:00

Total BS

The guy may have had a little bit more intelligent girl, who he could actually talk to and she would pretend to be interested, then he figured talking and opening up was great!

There is a reason our ancestors were stoic badass motherfuckers. The only kind of talk you share with women is trivial talk, while the other stuff gets discussed with your friends.

NEVER OPEN UP

She will lose respect for you. She views you as her stone. She has these inner doubts, but she assume you don't so she can depend on you. Once you break her illusion, she won't look at you the same. It has been prove time and time again through mine and mine friends' experiences

brethrenelementary · 2017-08-21T12:10:52+00:00

I think he should've used a different word than vulnerable. When most guys think of vulnerability, they think about telling someone about shit that made them sad. But what Manson is saying by using the word vulnerable is going out, being honest with your intentions and words with women (I think you're hot and I'd like to take you out), and risking rejection. That risking rejection part is leaving you vulnerable. You risk being embarrassed or yelled at or whatever, but you have to take that risk to attract women.

badnews4u · 2017-08-21T12:27:24+00:00

i think its radical honesty, not complaining to people. so its honesty to yourself which manifests in your dealings with people. jordan peterson explains this nicely.

TRP-Works · 2017-08-21T14:30:22+00:00

I'm not sure what that point in the book is, but at the beginning of chapter three. He says:

"A man who's able to make himself vulnerable is saying to the world, 'I don't care what you think of me; this is who I am, and I refuse to be anyone else.' He's saying he's not needy and that he's high status"

Does this help clarify it a bit more? The point that Manson is making in the part you asked about would associate "not being needy" and "high status" with "attractive behaviour."

SiulaGrande · 2017-08-21T07:16:47+00:00

listen bro, we all know that relationships (plates/LTR) sit on a scale between testosterone-raging alpha and soft-and-meek beta. too much alpha will sink an LTR (from too little comfort) and too much beta will prevent an LTR or a plate from staying attracted to you (weakness kills attraction). obviously there's some balance to maintain here.

just understand that showing vulnerability is a big bump towards the beta side. if youre too far on the alpha side, this can be ok, but thats usually not the case, and showing vulnerability can really be a massive jump to the beta side if you act literally weak in front of your girl (since she has to have confidence in your leadership and in you leading her).

id say if youre ever going to show vulnerability to your girl, it has to be very rare, and should come from a frame of "this is hard but im a man and I struggle through hardships so I'll be fine and this isnt getting me emotional but this is hard". dont wanna nuke youre attraction, so this should be fucking rare. and pretty much only for LTRs, as plates would be like "ok this guys lost it, NEEEXT".

basically just dont do it unless its organic from something actually stressful youre going through, and even then carry yourself well and dont just lay on her lap crying like a bitch. LTRs only

BusterVadge · 2017-08-21T12:40:34+00:00

I believe that Manson stole this idea from the book No More Mr Nice Guy. The difference is that in NMMNG, "opening up" is an exercise for the typical nice guy who's afraid to express himself and put his own emotional needs above others.

The way that Manson's Models book takes this concept one step further into integrating feminine attributes is not ok.

VasiliyZaitzev · 2017-08-21T15:05:05+00:00

Try this instead. You'll be glad you did:

Uncle Vasya’s Guide On Dating Models

-You Landed a 10. How to keep her in line.

hawkeaglejesus · 2017-08-21T16:20:37+00:00

Vulnerable just means don't give a fuck for fear of judgment.

kick6 · 2017-08-21T16:26:20+00:00

There's a chasm between being vulnerable and being the emotive phaggot we think of as being "in touch with our emotions/feminine side."

One is a shit test placed on all men so that women didn't have to work to filter alphas from betas, and the other is part of being human.

A man isn't supposed to be emotionless, but a man should be IN CONTROL of his emotions. You can't be anybody's rock if you have to express how you feel about the role. But if you're dog dies, you should be hurt by it.

Title	"Models" Conundrum
Author	MrOpppo
Upvotes	6
Comments	29
Date	August 21, 2017 2:19 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askTRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/6uzzw2/models_conundrum/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askTRP/models-conundrum.112815 https://theredarchive.com/post/112815

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