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[–]GeneralRouge 26 points27 points28 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm glad this wasn't an article about wearing male-makeup.
[–]Balance380 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Wow some of those are crazy transformations
[–]d-cent 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It is but at the same time it wasn't for me. The only girls I thought were attractive with makeup I also thought were attractive without.
Maybe I am in the minority here.
[–]munashe13 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
How do you avoid falling for the illusion or even seeing through the illusion...if feels almost impossible :'(
that's one skill id really love to possess...being able to see through the illusion
[–]rpcrazy -2 points-1 points0 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
assume every girl you see is 3 points lower than what you're seeing hahaha
[–]DONTUPVOTEPLZ -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Kind of agree with this guy, a lot of girls with make up you would rate quite a few points lower on the scale.
This means that girls SHOULD have lower standards than what their make up "illusion" makes you believe they have. However, of course there would be many girls that wear make up so regularly and get hit on because of their "illusion" that their standards get ridiculously and rather unfairly high to what they should really have.
[–]Duskendale 7 points8 points9 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
And people criticize seduction for being manipulative.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Thank you Tenmagnet for the quality post. I really enjoy when a single post can bring all aspects of game (inner and outer) up for discussion.
I'm glad, that by lurking seddit, I can find little nuggets like this to justify my studying and practicing of game.
[–]puaCurveBall 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Thanks for the writeup... all very true, and all the more reason to qualify for things you actually care about instead of making decisions solely on appearance.
imho, getting 9's and 10's isn't hard if you have low standards, but my 7's will beat the fuck out of other's 9's on personality, intelligence, and sexuality.
[–][deleted] 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
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[–]puaCurveBall 11 points12 points13 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
No, you interpret that based on your preconceptions.
It is just a matter of statistics, take anything rare and then constrain it to an even rarer subgroup.... it is just less likely.
[–]MonkeySteriods 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
For me thats not true. I've met tons of 7s who have a shitty attitude but most of the 9/10s i've met just want to have fun.
[–]TheCuriousDude 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Cajun's pic on his blog is ridiculous.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Interesting stuff Tenmagnet your a great guy for this sub :)
[–][deleted] 13 years ago* (32 children) | Copy Link
[–]puaCurveBall 15 points16 points17 points 13 years ago* (22 children) | Copy Link
I can't help it.
Bullshit.
You like feeling this way, because it gives you an excuse for why you aren't your fantasy guy who easily gets tons of women.(or some other bs reason)
Meditate and take some fucking responsibility for your thoughts. Are you going to sit here and whine that you can't control your own head?
Honestly, imagine if you DID have the pretty package, AND the ability to cheat, AND the sexual value??? Would you really be that interested in having sex with a bunch of women, if you were surrounded by them?
Maybe for a couple weeks, at most. You would get tired of all these women constantly approaching you looking for sex from you, without even caring about anything you've done in life besides the ability to CHEAT and look pretty.
Then you would start looking for women who actually had their shit together as a person. Pretty faces are a dime a dozen, you would want more than a rich family and some temporary social value.
You would want someone who really understands themselves, someone who is confident and can show you something about how to be a great person, A CHALLENGE.
Guess what that sounds like? BINGO, it sounds like the situation with women and men. They don't care about your fancy car or your job or whatever, they want actual value (strong inner game) as a person.
You've just flipped the game, only guess what? It is 100x Harder to find an awesome person than it is to sleep with attractive people.
Only now, you can't use your personality!!!... because all these women are looking for guys based on their (cheating) appearance and their inherent sexual value. You have to either play the game and wear makeup and all that shit, or you have women everyone treating you like you are worthless in the dating pool. Good luck trying to find a HQ woman without competing and being treated as a sexual object.
You have gone from the STRONGEST position, that of just spending a little bit of effort in approaching and demonstrating your value to find a woman to sleep with, to the WEAKEST, which is actually having to hunt down HQ girls just to get any enjoyment out of it.
TL;DR Value the rarity / difficulty of hooking up with girls, because if it were easy, you wouldn't want it... and you would have to work a HELL of a lot harder
[–][deleted] 13 years ago* (12 children) | Copy Link
[–]puaCurveBall 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link
I think I do. I have been approached by women all of the few times I have put myself out there.
So then WTF are you complaining about?
my point is that a guy has to have iron game to get women.
Are you fucking delusional? How do you think society keeps reproducing all these years? Because every father has amazing game?
You completely missed the point of my post. I was positing that you WERE in the position of women, and that your good looks was ENOUGH to get tons of women to like you.
do wish I could just paint my face and wait for guys to do come do all the work escalating. That would be so easy
Jesus, read my post again. The whole point is that it ISNT EASY or a good position to be in.
I reserve the right to call it unfair even though I know the problem is only with me.
So you are ok with being delusional?
A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.
Let me know how this works out for you. You don't get points for whining in life. Either find a solution or be alone... either one is fine, but 100% if you stop being a bitter prick to women, you'll have more success.
[–][deleted] 13 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link
[–]puaCurveBall 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
/WOOOOSH
I was positing that you WERE in the position of women, and that your good looks was ENOUGH to get tons of women to like you fuck your brains out
Happy now? The whole point was what if your looks and "cheating" and sexual value WERE enough to warrant you tons of easy sex.
I am a bitter prick only towards myself.
I'm 100% this comes through when you interact with women for any length of time.
I am completely sure that no woman has ever thought I was a prick towards her.
It doesn't manifest you as a prick, it manifest as you being completely unable to empathize or respect women.
I'm lamenting that I would switch places and be the object and then they could be the subject because then I would not have to be brave. They would ask me out. They would go for the kiss. etc.
Re-read my post, the whole point was imagining if you were actually in that position.
[–][deleted] 13 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
[–]puaCurveBall 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link
I have several female friends that value my friendship a lot. a heavily drunk female friend of me beckoned me over and said: "I need to tell you something. Don't ever change. You are amazing."
I have several female friends that value my friendship a lot.
a heavily drunk female friend of me beckoned me over and said: "I need to tell you something. Don't ever change. You are amazing."
Great, then why aren't you swimming in a sea of pussy???
Hard to answer that one, isn't it. If you are so fucking amazing, WHERE ARE THE WOMEN?
You can try to rationalize this with a bullshit answer about not doing enough kino, but the dark truth is that all those girls that might like you as a friend would never consider fucking you because you are a bitter, whiny prick. You can lie to yourself about not touching them enough, and that might even be a part of it, but i can say 100% certainty you are not going to be really successful with women with the attitude / mindset you have right now.
Because my problem isn't about empathy
Why should I continue to talk to you if you are going to make absolute statements that are not in any way knowable by yourself?
You aren't looking to learn or re-evaluate your views on the world, which is what you need to do to improve.
You just want to whine about shit without taking a hard look at your (false) assumptions.
Good luck. Perhaps in a few months you should re-look at this interchange and reflect on how you are coming across and might have a different opinion of everything I've wrote, or you'll be stuck exactly where you are at, which is just whining about shit without looking to make improvements.
[–][deleted] 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
[–]puaCurveBall -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Hint: Its not one where you are bitter about girls being able to "cheat".
[–]TheMightyImprov 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
re: the uneven playing field between men and women... It sounds like the difference between superficial (short-term) appeal and character (long-term) appeal. The former is intuitively obvious, while the latter requires fine detective skills. [I emphasize the dual problems faced by both sexes: attraction and screening.]
Unfortunately, women are not offered the same motivation to become detectives, and this puts them at a serious disadvantage.
So I agree: it seems unfair at first that men have to learn all these pickup skills and go to such extravagant lengths just for simple (superficial) sex, but on review, men are dealt the better hand.
We must become heroes, and we should be grateful for the monsters that demanded our (character) heroics in the first place. Without them, I would be just another silly bitch, not Batman.
Note, there's more than one gender-thread being untangled in this discussion.
"Women get laid more easily because they just have to look hawt." Yes, they are blessed with more quantity, but not necessarily higher quality. No one is envious of all-you-can-eat McDonald's.
"Men must learn difficult skills before they can get laid, but this rewards them in the long run with higher quality." Expensive restaurant, but high-quality food makes it worth it.
So are these generalizations valid irl? I'm not entirely sure because look, even the mPUAs take pride in the appearances of their catches. True, they release the ones not worth keeping, but the first variable selected for when they scan the field is superficial appeal. Cf. the inversion of this reality in Shallow Hal.
In the end, if the high-quality guys do all the footwork by learning the PUA's superficial appeal and then presenting themselves for the HB's selection, then women might not really need detective skills after all. Of course, they would still need to become high-quality...
It could be that high-quality men and women are working from opposite ends of the same problem. Whether you become a hero-detective or she does...
GAH I take it all back, women not being motivated to become heroes is bad for both sexes (at least in a utilitarian sense). It creates a systemic imbalance, with too many Batmen outnumbering the Catwomen or what have you. Statistically, at least some Batmen are going to get left out in the cold without a high-quality Catwoman, and they're going to be forced to settle for a string of mediocre-quality albeit superficially sexy Talias (fuck you comic nerds, you know what I mean). This leaves neither the luckless Batmen nor the transient Talias fully satisfied.
Better if we can kill the beast of anti-sexual social conditioning, and make everyone a hero. But wait -- what need for a hero without a monster...? Maybe the Greeks have a pederastic solution for this?
Fuck it, I got work to finish. Will edit if you're interested.
[–]puaCurveBall 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Be the better Batman.
[–][deleted] 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheMightyImprov 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Oops, I actually see the problem in a different light. It's not that men and women weight sex appeal and character appeal differently; in fact, I would argue that despite what the ads tell you, both genders value sex and character similarly. (I maintain this even despite self-reported surveys of mate preferences. People can be misled by their social conditioning when answering on a conscious level, but on the more important unconscious level, we're all the same kind of animal.)
Our similar preferences might be surprising, given that men and women face very different pressures. You say a woman's sexuality is alluring and a guy's sexuality is disgusting, but the reverse is actually truer. Girls face more contradictory pressures on a societal level. Guys who like sex are admired players, whereas girls who like sex are shameful sluts. So girls are trapped in a double-bind: they are expected to respond to men sexually, but they're risking their reputation if they do. (And if they don't? Ice queen.)
Women also face more extreme pressures than men on a practical level. Of course we men can be liberal with our manly juices; we don't have to deal with the babies that ensue in our tummies. We're also not prone to getting sexually harassed or raped.
So in answer to your question, "[W]here are the straight women?" They're everywhere, and they want it as bad as you or worse; but they've been taught sex is bad and should be hidden from you. It's our job to teach them otherwise. We have to teach them that that slut-shaming is wrong, that sex is okay, that we're not douchebags they'll regret sleeping with.
(Sidenote: goddamn I would be fucking all day, every day if I were a female. You know that some think the clitoris has two times as many nerve endings as the penis? And no refractory period? The record for female orgasms in an hour is like 120 I think. If anything, polyandry makes the most sense.)
Furthermore, they "have to be gamed" the same as you do. Next time you're in a bar, just imagine if every single women opened you a la Chris Rock. Women are drowning in sexual options, and gaming is how you compete with the other options.
(As a related footnote: I'm inclined to agree with Chris Ryan, author of Sex at Dawn, which aims to prove that monogamy is an institution invented by men to control their inheritance. Fuck you, agriculture! Worst invention EVER)
p.s. Anyone interested in the difference between men's and women's social conditioning, let me know and I'll search for links that explain better than I can. Off the cuff, one feminist blog I would recommend is Jezebel. Know thy enemy, amirite?
[–]trialblog 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
While I appreciate Sex at Dawn's attempt at breaking down current cultural narrative about monogamy being the only good sexuality, I have to give the authors some serious side-eye for consistently misquoting studies to prove their points. Emily Nagoski at The Dirty Normal has some good break downs of how they misuse scientific material.
[–]TheMightyImprov 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Very cool. (Might need to fix the link.)
[–]trialblog 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
That's what I get for making comments on my phone.
[–]TheMightyImprov 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I'm hella glad you pointed us this way.
The book [Sex at Dawn] claims, in the end, that there is a “natural” human sociosexual system. This is both an example of the naturalistic fallacy and, at the same time, a devaluing of what is (in my view) MOST extraordinary about human sexuality: its adaptability, plasticity, variety, and diversity. ALL human sexuality is “natural,” whether polyamorous, polygynous, polyandrous, monogamous, or anything else.
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is great - I think it's one of the best responses I've seen to the common complaint that men have it worse because they have to approach women. Men are expected to be the ones who act, and being the one whose actions are most important always gives you the most power to influence a situation.
[–]CaptainEnzyme4 points 13 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
What about women? Women who AREN'T born attractive will never be 10s, even with good makeup/hair/styling. They might be fantastic people, funny, smart, etc, and get almost zero attention from guys. No amount of self-improvement will ever help them, as guys will always go for the prettier girls (even if they are not so attractive). At least you can control how women see you.
[–]Tenmagnet2 points 13 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
Life isn't fair man. In fact, the very idea of "fairness" is pretty much useless. Justice is an individual quality - a person can be just or not, but the WORLD at large simply isn't governed by moral principles. Learning to accept that is crucial towards getting over those feelings of resentment and jealousy.
Do you tell people who don't like racists to blow a goat too?
Whinging about something that isn't fair as an alternative to improving yourself is a very different thing to identifying a large-scale imbalance in the world and working to address that.
I have to say, though, that I've just started reading material in this subreddit and I'm pleasantly surprised that the vast majority of it isn't in the slightest bit degrading towards women.
[–]trialblog 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I assume you meant inherent as opposed to inherit. So, on that point, what you perceive to be her sexual value is not at all inherent, and is a social construct -- you place the value upon her and it has nothing to do with her person or nature. She doesn't give a shit and goes on with her life; you're obsessing about the differences in your "sexual value."
As for cheating, if you don't like it when women wear makeup, don't date women who wear makeup. In my experience, guys pay more attention and express more attraction to women who wear makeup -- whether it is obvious makeup or "no makeup" makeup. If guys didn't, and if the cultural standards of beauty didn't encourage the use of makeup to cover imperfections, makeup would no longer be an effective tool and would fall into disuse. Do you think women should not try to make themselves more attractive?
And you act like guys don't have the ability to make themselves more attractive, to have the pretty package, so to speak. You can dress well, smell nice, have good body language. If you think that women don't notice these things, you're not giving them enough credit as sexual subjects and too much as sexual objects.
[–][deleted] 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]trialblog 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
This honestly confuses me. You want something you have less control over than behavior or dress to count for more? For women, the intense focus on appearance (almost to the exclusion of everything else) is not a gift. It means that an otherwise awesome woman is more likely to get looked over. It creates an intense pressure to meet standards of beauty. It means they are numbers on an (incorrectly used) scale. You have less agency, not more, when you wait around and hope your appearance attracts a mate.
So you'd rather trade your ability to pick and choose for a gilded cage in which your effort doesn't even guarantee an approach?
And I'll agree that it does suck that more women don't approach. The best thing you can do in that situation is to deal with the situation as it is now while supporting cultural change in gender roles. I would like to say in closing that you seem to have a bitterness towards women because you hold this false perception of what it's like to be them -- that comes across clearly to a lot of us. It smacks of lack of empathy and respect, and it is a total turn off.
[–]DimasPadilla87 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
still would with Eva and Sophie. Most others i haven't heard of... But...
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
These are before and after of porn stars and how they get prepared. hahahaha
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