LTR Game: How can I be romantic without supplicating? Be alpha but achieve intimacy?

pickup_startist · 2010-12-02T12:01:53+00:00

I personally believe LTR is a completely different game than pickup. In pickup you don't have any obligations or responsibilities. If you find yourself in a situation you don't like, you can eject. If you make a mistake, you never have to see the people around you ever again. Most of all, in pickup, you don't have a reason to care about your marks yet. Pickup is meant to give us all better and more opportunities to determine if people are worth caring about. When you approach a person for the first time, she is literally a total stranger. Tautology.

But I will say this now: if you intend to "game" your way through a LTR, it's going to be an empty husk of a thing. If you do not care about the other person, at least somewhat, you have no business being in an LTR with them. Not to mention how misguided a person must be to use tricks to get a girl to stay in such a relationship. You have to care; you have to be willing to - at times - be less of what you consider ideal, or alpha, or whatever you call it, for the sake of the other person.

That being said, there are good moves, and there are mistakes. While it is more often appropriate in a relationship to flatter and "supplicate" your partner than it is to qualify yourself to a new set, you don't want to suffocate your partner. Have boundaries; respect hers. Have other things going on in your life to keep you busy besides her.

Let's talk specifics of your post. Every school of pickup I've encountered has encouraged practitioners to never buy things (a drink) for an HB they haven't already (particularly f-) closed. This is because the act of paying for a girl's joy can say something about its own necessity. If you have to buy a drink to get a girl's attention - to make her pleased - you're not worth very much attention on your own.

This kind of thing doesn't apply in a LTR. You and your partner know each other. She has a sense of what you're worth as an integral of each experience you share together. You should never be afraid to do something nice for your significant other. There is nothing wrong with making the person you're with happy. In fact, your goal in a relationship should be to craft as many positive experiences for your partner as you can. That's how you keep interest.

The problem is, crafting experiences well takes a lot of... panache. You have to know what you're doing, be confident, keep frame. You have to be all the things you have to be to pickup women, but that doesn't mean you go about it the same way.

The main difference between pickup and an LTR is, in pickup, you are competing with your target, in a sense. You're playing a game on the opposite side of the table, where you don't want to show your hand.

In an LTR, if you are competing against your partner, you're doing it wrong. You should be cooperating. You should be communicating.

Most of all, you should be caring. If you feel like buying a girl flowers, great. Buy her flowers. If you don't feel like buying her flowers, buying her flowers because it's what you feel like you should be doing is useless. In fact, it's obvious, in all cases, that it's an empty gesture meant to appease. This is not what a good LTR is about.

If you genuinely care about a person without objectifying her, romantic gestures will come naturally, and they will be signs of strength and "alphaness". On the flip side, if you go through the motions to "keep her happy," it will be perceived as a sign of weakness. Do not act out of fear or anxiety, but out of desire. If the desire is gone, what are you doing in an LTR with this person?

As far as vulnerability, that comes back to communication, trust, etc. Again, it should be a natural thing. There is a problem if you are artificially making yourself seem more vulnerable than you are. There's an even bigger problem if you are actually making yourself more vulnerable than you want to be.

Keeping a girl on her toes, on the other hand, comes back to crafting experiences. You do not want to "direct her when needed," as you put it. That's objectification, and quite ugly a thing. You want to be interesting. You want to be a person who has experiences, who makes experiences, without whom life would be boring, or even meaningless. Have interests, do things. Take her places. Stay interesting. Don't expect the magic to stick around if you stop being magical to her. And that doesn't mean negs and destroying ASD; you're past that. It's about the ultimate DHV. The kind you can't fake.

As far as not taking shit, that's a good point to bring up. I mentioned boundaries before. This includes acceptable boundaries of behavior. You have to be comfortable enough with your own company to go without sex for a while if your woman is the type to withhold it as a tool - long enough, that is, to make it clear that you won't be caving and that such things are unacceptable. Desperation is your worst enemy here. When something matters, you can always hold out for it. Once you've established that fighting against you works, as opposed to cooperating with you, you no longer have a relationship. You have a battle.

But on the other side of the same coin, that doesn't mean be stubborn and unreasonable. Like I said, it's not a battle. You aren't fighting, you're waiting for an opportunity to talk it out like a pair of reasonable human beings. Listen. Communicate. Apologize when you actually believe you've done something wrong. It's a sign of strength, not weakness.

Lastly, don't cheat :|

TL;DR: My god, I've written a novel :\

ThrowawayPUA · 2010-12-02T05:58:38+00:00

You're talking about "Relationship Management."

Savoy has produced some good study materials on this subject.

Here's one introductory video

Here's another

LA_Playa · 2010-12-02T06:08:24+00:00

Rewards for good behavior IMO. It should appear to be "surprises" for her, but she gets nothing for nothing in return.

Showing part of your vulnerable side can be a reward.

cheddarchexmix · 2010-12-02T19:21:20+00:00

I've been in a few relationships of 2+ years. While I was a supplicating AFC for the first couple, I have really improved in my LTR management. Here are my tips.

be prepared to live with the precedents you set as early as the first date. One of my LTR's made at least as much money as I did, but we got off on a foot where I paid for everything on our initial dates. That expectation carried through for the next 2 years, even on big vacations etc. In another LTR, she hated football, which I love. Shortly after we started dating, she continously would get me to do things with her on Sundays when she knew I wanted to watch football. I acquiesced, and basically gave up my right to watch football on Sundays. Now, I train my ladies from day 1 to not even try to ask me to do things when football is on. It's really hard to reverse precedents like this, you'll get tons of resistance to it.
giving flowers, nice gifts etc, is totally cool. But I try to do it when it is not expected, and train her to not "drop hints" of what/when I should get her gifts. Like I generally give only some flowers for valentine's day, and a nice but not super expensive birthday gift, but like to surprise her at other times with nice gifts out of the blue.

If you're awesome, your girl won't leave you for not getting her flowers. But you have to remember in an LTR, there are all kinds of social pressures that the girl is getting from her friends, and if you make her feel vulnerable / less valuable through that venue you can be in big trouble. No girl wants to sheepishly say "oh a really nice card" when all her girlfriends are comparing what they got for valentine's day. It's messed up, but this is a big driver of what girls want you to do in a relationship.

philosarapter · 2010-12-02T18:27:48+00:00

Being romantic and being supplicating are two different things. It all comes down to the reason for your actions. If you are getting her flowers because she wants them, then you are supplicating, but if you get her flowers because you felt like surprising her with flowers, then you are being romantic.

I think it all comes down to where you see your relative value. You should be doing things because you are taking care of your girl. Not because you are scared she's gonna get mad at you if you don't. For example: If she throws a fit about how you never get her anything, then don't succumb to her and get her something. A man does things for his own reasons.

As for intimacy, literally sweep her off her feet and carry her to the bedroom because you want to indulge in her body.

Title	LTR Game: How can I be romantic without supplicating? Be alpha but achieve intimacy?
Author	LA_Playa
Upvotes	9
Comments	7
Date	December 2, 2010 5:42 AM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/eex60/ltr_game_how_can_i_be_romantic_without/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/ltr-game-how-can-i-be-romantic-without.1313376 https://theredarchive.com/post/1313376

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