Paradox with Models by Mark Manson

puaCurveBall · 2014-03-04T21:30:02+00:00

Go out in the field.

How do you think this is affecting your interactions with women?

These guides are all mental masturbation if you aren't going out in the field.

TonyDAbsolute · 2014-03-04T22:35:07+00:00

The game is littered with paradox. For every ying there must be yang.

HappyJerk · 2014-03-05T01:08:23+00:00

Being vulnerable isnt the same as being needy. Neediness is about wanting something from the other person. The danger with being vulnerable is that you sound oathetic or weird.

n3kr0n · 2014-03-04T22:06:14+00:00

What curveball said + its not your goal to make women like you. If you follow the concept of the book, you should already know you are awesome and you are just trying to find out if the girl you are talking too is equally awesome.

Tombstone31 · 2014-03-05T00:39:18+00:00

It's all about the intention. Any behavior designed to attract or seduce is a turn off. So your intention should not be to persuade, impress, or seduce. Instead, your intention should be to filter - for women who will like you for you, and for women who want the same thing as you, whatever that may be.

2014-03-05T05:06:30+00:00

No its not needy because you're sharing your self honestly without wanting something in return - not even a reaction. Putting your balls on the line like this is something that cant be faked - its something only truly confident guys can do. the girls sense thst what she thinks doesn't affect you. .. and at thr same timr you're showing your honest interest, it demonstrats to her that your of real value, and could get any great girl you desire. So they dont play games with you and happily reciprocate the interest

RishFush · 2014-03-05T05:16:30+00:00

That's actually a good point. It's weird how it intertwines though. I think being vulnerable is just a good way to go about living life. It's the harder way to live, but it makes you strong as hell and makes your connections much deeper.

Ok, so I've been diving deep into vulnerability as a way of life lately. Reading a bunch of books on the subject, practicing it in my life, writing about it all the time.

The biggest obstacle to living vulnerably seems to be the enemies you'll inevitably make. No matter how agreeable or positive your values are, there's always going to be someone that hates you for it. Always. So when someone's being their naked self, that means they believe they're strong enough to fight their inevitable enemies. Or they're willing to die (at the very extreme) for their beliefs and values.

That's strength. That's every strong human being in history. They put their naked selves out there to be judged, to either be loved or hated. I'm sure there are plenty of people in history that put themselves out there to be judged and got exiled or killed for it.

So how it relates to women is that women are attracted to strength and integrity. Vulnerability is a defining trait of a strong, dependable person. They aren't hiding anything. Malicious intents would show themselves quickly. And from there, the woman can judge you for you and see if she's attracted. The idea is to polarize her so you can hang out with women who are truly attracted to you and to repel those who aren't.

RandianHero · 2014-03-05T09:16:28+00:00

Don't get too wrapped up in other peoples' bullshit. It's one person's musings amongst countless others, and many of them are bound to be contradictory, poorly phrased, or just plain wrong. For example: I think Manson's concept of vulnerability is poorly phrased, because the very act of putting yourself out there denotes that such actions do not pose a threat to you to begin with, meaning that you're not actually vulnerable.

CraftingAmbition · 2014-03-05T20:58:19+00:00

I had the same question. And then half way through the book Mark directly acknowledges the paradox and solves it. Here's the quote:

The true power of vulnerability is that it resolves the investment paradox. The investment paradox, as mentioned in the previous chapter, is the conflict between the two aspects of female attraction.

Women are attracted to men who are of higher status than themselves (or in our terms, less needy). They are also aroused by men who desire them. The paradox is that typically, if a man shows desire towards a woman, then he’s also showing some degree of neediness or that he’s lower status.

The common term for this is “putting her on a pedestal.” The Pick Up Artist community side-stepped the paradox by coming up with tricks and tactics which are able to show women desire while simultaneously giving the appearance of not showing desire or being needy. This works, but only in the short-term.

Vulnerability short-circuits the paradox. A man comfortable being vulnerable will not behave in a needy way. And when desire is shown without neediness, it is attractive. When desire is shown with neediness, it is unattractive. (P. 60-61)

Hope that helps!

husgutt · 2014-06-24T14:29:58+00:00

Late answer. Started reading yesterday. What I take from it is that when you are vulnerable and show your intents, that is only needy if you are dependent on her response. It is the combination of undressing your emotions, and not caring how she responds that beats the paradox.

To really dissect your motivations, maybe you should investigate mindfulness. Then you can figure out wheter you are approaching based on fantasy (if I get her, then everything will be good), or if you approach because you feel like it in the moment, in the reality.

The last one is much easier, because you are connected to the reality, and not a fantasy. You cannot be dissapointed. She is not better nor worse than the idea you have in your head. She is only what she is. This actually makes is easier to pay attention to her and judger her for who she is, not what you think she is. Also, when you accept her, it is easier to accept yourself. And vice versa.

Title	Paradox with Models by Mark Manson
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	7
Comments	25
Date	March 4, 2014 9:21 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1zkcj9/paradox_with_models_by_mark_manson/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/paradox-with-models-by-mark-manson.1367006 https://theredarchive.com/post/1367006

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