What about being genuine?

social_scrying · 2014-05-09T04:28:40+00:00

Youre right. There is a high noise to signal ratio in the seduction community. It takes a long time to sort through the bullshit and find out what is and is not useful.

That being said, many of the ideas thrown around in this sub are inherently bogus, but they do serve a purpose. The purpose is to overcompensate for a given issue:

The idea of coming up with lines to say which you are reading directly from an internet post you read earlier in the day is such BS.

Yes, lines are stupid, however, for a guy who has massive AA and cant think of something else to say, it is an effective means to get a conversation started. The difference between the best and worst openers are how you deliver it, not what you actually say. Openers generally dont matter, so it's not that important one way or another, as long as you are getting experience from it.

I cannot stand the thought of not being genuine, in the sense of being a puppet with seddit as the hand controlling you.

you can be yourself and use a canned opener at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive.

The whole "fake it til you make it" approach is so fake isn't it?

Yes, inherently it is. However, it is an effective means of negating the initial no-confidence feedback loop. If you are not confident, you will not have confident actions. Those actions will be perceived as not confident, and thus not attractive. The negative judgement you interpret from others for not being confident will make you less confident. This seems to be a cyclical problem. How do you break the cycle? Fake confidence, or become outcome independent. I will admit, though, that it is much easier to understand how to fake confidence than to actually acquire confidence over time. Acquiring confidence naturally over time is a product of having life experiences, which is why the community harps on going out as much as you can.

For example, I see many people on here who post about going out to bars alone while openly denying/avoiding this fact to people they meet. I imagine meeting my future wife through some of these methods and right off the bat you are be essentially basing a relationship on false pretenses.

You have hit the nail on the head of an interesting topic. Lying about anything in social situations is bad and is not sustainable, however, this still leaves you with a social dilemma. If you tell someone you are at a bar alone going around and talking to girls you don't know, you can be perceived as creepy. 99% of people do not do this. A lie to avoid this unnecessary social stigma will prevent this issue. The bottom line here is that social norms are, in fact, extremely stupid, but there is functionally nothing you can do about it. It's called "the game" for a reason. The rules are dumb, but if you break the rules, you lose the game.

I have to be someone I'm not to get any level of success which is frustrating.

There is an interesting dichotomy between being fully accepting of yourself, currently, and wanting to undergo self improvement. These seem to be conflicting ideologies. If you are trying to do something you have never done before, you are by definition being someone you are not. This is more of a philosophical debate rather than a functional one. At the end of the day, you are the only one who can decide how your actions and interactions will dictate how you define yourself and your future self. Incorporate the ideologies presented to you on the internet into your own model of how the social structure operates at your own discretion. Time and experience are the only two factors that will show you what is and is not beneficial to getting you towards your goals.

Is there a way to be both genuine and successful with your social life?

This is an ideal outcome. An ideal outcome is derived from ideal components. What characteristics that make up a man do you perceive to be ideal? (fit, rich, funny, interesting, worldly, smart, etc.) I would recommend creating your own list of characteristics that you wish to achieve. With those components you deem ideal, use them to forge your ideal social outcome. It takes a lot of time and effort to become the ideal person you want to be, and yesterday was the day to start.

In my opinion, this post is exactly the reason this material should be taught: to teach guys how to diagnose their own issues. You clearly are starting to ask the right questions. If you dont ask the right questions, you will never find the right answers. I hope you eventually find the answers you are looking for.

RandianHero · 2014-05-09T03:25:33+00:00

Don't think of it as "faking it until you make it", think of it as reprogramming years of bad habits and shitty social conditioning until you do stuff like that automatically. You cannot do this without forcing yourself to act differently than you normally would, which to some can be construed as being fake. You're not being fake; you're just slowly undoing the years of damage that made you into an ineffectual turd. That takes time, and a fair amount of rebuilding who you are from the ground up.

Institutions like the military do the same thing: they break you down so they can rebuild you into something else. In this case, instead of becoming a disciplined, trained killer, you're becoming someone who doesn't suck with women.

jimmyayo · 2014-05-09T04:00:18+00:00

long time lurker

Don't worry that's the majority of posters on seddit these days

I am all about being genuine, but it seems like this is getting me nowhere, and I have to be someone I'm not to get any level of success which is frustrating.

Nobody is telling you to completely change who you are. But look, there's obviously a reason you're not having success with women - and to just sit and cross your arms and stubbornly insist you want to "stay genuine" and do nothing to change yourself is going to get you nowhere.

There will always be routines in our conversations with people. When you greet your coworkers on Monday morning, you say "good morning how was your weekend" and follow a certain routine-based script that we've all learned is a practical and normal Monday morning conversation. Now if someone were to learn this and use this script, this routine, do you think he's all of a sudden being disingenuous and fake? No.

There is so much good stuff you can learn from seduction and pickup - social skills, being charismatic, imparting value in social settings. These are qualities with which you want to augment your personality, not replace. Nobody is telling you to throw away the baby out with the bathwater. If that is the message you are getting from the material, either you haven't read enough of the right material or it has been presented to you in an ineffective/inaccurate manner.

Squand · 2014-05-09T04:29:47+00:00

If you are uncomfortable fibbing in bar settings in order to work around logistics or to avoid giving player vibe, that is absolutely fine. Be your genuine self, there are plenty of ways to remain honest and work those things out.

She asks, do you go out often? Say, "Yeah, I'm working on my game." It's not the end of the world. There will be women who are into that and appreciate the upfront honesty.

But being genuine doesn't always mean revealing everything. You can also avoid topics like that. Perfectly acceptable to keep some info close to your chest or play it coy.

Very little in this subreddit is conjured interactions in my opinion.

Think about it like this, if you go see improv or watch who's line is it anyway, that's spontaneous off the cuff improvisation.

But those people have played those games a million times. They fall into familiar pools, they have a tool set that allows them to be fluid, because they practiced for years. That isn't natural at first.

Similarly think about Jazz. You play standard scales, you learn theory, then as you learn more little tricks and riffs you begin to be able to string them together into a fluid song.

James Bond isn't born James Bond. And just because he practiced being a bad ass, or got his ass kicked for years, doesn't make him less natural, it makes him more natural.

In general, getting a girl through game, and through conscious effort is a lot more rewarding than when you bumble fuck into one.

"I am all about being genuine, but it seems like this is getting me nowhere, and I have to be someone I'm not to get any level of success which is frustrating."

If you are approaching 100 girls in a genuine fashion you'd be having success. One thing seddit teaches is it's a numbers game. Basically nothing is as important as numbers. Especially before you find your grove. Anyone who says they aren't having success hasn't approached 100 girls in a month. People want to meet, make friends, and hook up.

FangornEnt · 2014-05-09T06:33:08+00:00

Some people can be successful by being themselves(a natural, no problems talking, flirting, etc with women) while others have to change certain behaviors/habits.

lord_of_vader · 2014-05-14T20:36:19+00:00

I'd say, just like anything, you should be natural. You should be yourself. However, if you find out that "yourself" isn't what girls want/guys want/employers want/your dog wants, you should probably calibrate and adjust to achieve your goals.

You can be successful being yourself and getting friends or girls, as long as "yourself" is a person they want to be around.

That's why it's called "the Game" my friend, and it's a cruel game.

darkvinc · 2014-05-12T06:19:20+00:00

If the canned shit dosen't work for you don't take it .... Some guys like it ... some use it as references / bar tricks... Some follow it step by step like a brownie recipe ....

Title	What about being genuine?
Author	aolney
Upvotes	1
Comments	10
Date	May 9, 2014 3:08 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/253kog/what_about_being_genuine/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/what-about-being-genuine.1370497 https://theredarchive.com/post/1370497

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