Talking is not enough

TheTinMenBlog · 2023-04-01T14:42:56+00:00

This is a work in progress (going up tomorrow) so any errors or feedback let me know! TTM

~

More and more I am seeing well intended but incomplete advocacy for male suicide prevention.

“Men should talk”, or “man can cry” I hear on the daily.

Do I think these campaigns are good? Yes, of course.

Do I think they are good enough? Absolutely not.

More and more research is emerging to show is that epidemic of male suicide is not a primarily a mental health crisis, it is not caused by a single problem, and it cannot be solved through “talking”.

Suicide in simple terms, is usually men’s ‘rational’ response to the build up structural problem or personal stressors.

Things like child custody and family courts, or being a victim of abuse. Issues such as losing a job, debt, relationship breakdown, loneliness, or experiences of childhood sexual assault.

All the things that advocates are not talking about.

I have never seen one single male suicide campaign talk about the corrupt family court system – despite losing child custody being one of the biggest risk factors for suicide in men.

I have never seen a comprehensive campaign that stands up for male victims of domestic abuse, despite 11% of abused men attempting suicide.

I have never seen anything other than contempt heaped at the feet of single, lonely, unemployed men; despite them being the group most at risk to suicide.

All I hear are tears and talk, and tears and talk, and no effort to actually listen to, or act upon, the things men and boys are talking about.

I see a lot of people selling books. I still a lot of people launching albums, or acting careers.

I see impossibly handsome men in man buns pining, or wringing their hands, and flagellating themselves over how much they care, and then failing to do the dirty work that is required.

And yes it is dirty work.

Advocacy is not supposed to be easy. It is supposed to be hard. It’s supposed to be about others, not about yourself.So why the reluctance to talk about the things that are actually shaping male suicide?

Loneliness, domestic abuse, unemployment, family courts, sexual assault, the lack of male services, fatherlessness…

Where are our noble advocates now?

And who is helping suicidal men… and who is exploiting them?

~

Images by Kiwi Hug, Karen Sewell, Yosh Ginsu, Fadkera Official, Andrews Siimon,

Sources:

Domestic abuse and suicide

Sexual abuse and suicide

Employment / relationship status and suicide

Family Courts and Suicide

JJnanajuana · 2023-04-01T22:21:49+00:00

Its kinda the opposite of the nail

Like trying to get help getting the nail out of your head, but everywhere you turn for help people are 'listenining',

but not really listening because they wont help remove the nail.

Only it's not a nail, its court systems set up against you, and its loosing contact with your kids and its being acused of the shit your ex put you through and its having nowhere to turn to when you need to, get out of an abusive relationship that wont acuse you of being the abuser (something helplines and shelters aparently do a lot here)

Theres something horrible about having 'feelings heard' and problems ignored. Cant really feel like the feelings are heard if the answer to "this nail is really anoying can you please get it out of my head" is ER saying "ow, that looks like it really hurts, i bet you get headaches too, i feel for you."

xnsb · 2023-04-01T23:12:28+00:00

This meme that if we just opened up everything would be completely ok is just false. I know it because I've always felt free to talk about my feelings, and I cry fairly easily. I wasn't brought up with particularly masculine norms, and have never been told to man up (except in a fairly gentle and nuanced way by female friends giving me advice on how to be more attractive). I should be perfectly fine according to the feminists who go on about toxic masculinity. But I'm not because I face a combination of psychological issues that don't go away by talking, and social forces that exacerbate my issues.

I think talking can help a bit if you're really bottling things up and have never spoken to anyone about your issues, and it can be particularly useful for reducing shame, but beyond a certain point it's not the solution. And it's too easy for people to use as a way to blame men for the problems they face - "if you'd just talk, everything would be ok". And obviously it ignores the negative consequences many men face for talking about their feelings.

So yes, let's make therapy available for men, customise therapy for mens needs, and give men others spaces to talk like mens groups. But also let's tackle the social forces making things worse. And stop dismissing men with "just talk more/cry more".

hshsgdve · 2023-04-02T07:00:35+00:00

They want to have the reputation that they care, but they don’t.

Be selfish. Let them call you an arsehole. They won’t help when you’re down.

Head up Kings.

bottleblank · 2023-04-02T06:13:19+00:00

"You're not going to die just because you can't get your dick wet".

Well, actually...

Edit: Was going to comment with this, but got distracted by the above thought when I read further into the slides, but I do like the nutritional information motif on the first slide. I don't know how much it'll mean to those outside of the UK, but I thought it was very fitting, to someone who is very familiar with them from buying food in the UK.

BKEnjoyer · 2023-04-04T03:01:09+00:00

This just happens with any discussion of your struggle, I know it firsthand. Half the time I talk about how I struggle making friends and I desire to have a romantic relationship but most people just think you’re entitled/a misogynist/an incel for wanting those things

CCMF_volunteer · 2023-04-05T18:04:50+00:00

Divorce has a big impact on male suicide, due to a man losing (oftentimes) most of his assets as well as his children, and potentially also his freedom if the ex wife makes a false domestic violence accusation. We need to defend the presumption of innocence and change family law to promote equal shared parenting as the default.

Then there is the deeper problem of the empathy gap. Men are often told to “suck it up and deal with it” while women are given compassion and support.

Title	Talking is not enough
Author	TheTinMenBlog
Upvotes	273
Comments	14
Date	April 1, 2023 2:42 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/128oe55/talking_is_not_enough/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/talking-is-not-enough.1207204 https://theredarchive.com/post/1207204

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