Youtuber AIU believes Brock Turner is innocent. What would you say?

ifelsedowhile · 2018-08-12T18:14:40+00:00

Youtuber Atheism-Is-Unstoppable believes Brock Turner (a college student who was accused and convicted of sexual assault in 2016) is innocent. I...

[–]skepticalbob 8 points9 points10 points 7 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

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[–]TheMythof_Feminism 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

Trying to fuck someone who is unconscious is a crime.

Good thing Mexico's laws aren't retarded, because under that description, a good 60%+ of the republic's adults, men and women alike, would be guilty of that crime.

Men + women + alcohol = A lot of drunken fucking.

That's just what's going to happen and both sides know it.

She was unconscious

It's called being drunk. He was drunk too and so was everyone else at that party.

I don't drink. I despise alcohol and I find drunks to be repugnant...but having lived around alcoholics for a large part of my life, I'm pretty sure I know how it goes. You are apparently completely clueless.

Don't be so ideological you are blind to basic facts.

Projection.

You continually pretend like she wasn't there for the express purpose of getting drunk off her ass , with an interest in getting railed. This wasn't that girl's first rodeo, and your marxist nonsense of trying to paint her as a "victim" is ....... let's say "extremely misguided" just to be nice.

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[–]antilopes 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

Correct, drunk sex is not rape.
Correct, people have drunk sex often, especially in that environment.
Neither of those things are under dispute.

can unironically make the argument that if a drunken man and a drunken woman have sex, the man has done something wrong..... what a bunch of drivel.

You contradict the rape law in any western country, so you are not in a position to discuss the subject. Look up the law on rape for California, you will need to know that. Read the whole law, it isn't long.

Then google rape law man drunk and find out about the "but what if the man was drunk too?" thing.

Learn to distinguish between the law's protection of a drunken victim, and the responsibility a drunken offender does not evade by being drunk. There is a lot of ill-informed wishful thinking rubbish written on the subject so find something written by a lawyer.

I don't know why you are promoting a dodgy YouTube video purporting to excuse a convicted rapist. This case was discussed at great length on here, in minute detail because there were a small number of very persistent and well prepared Turner apologists.

Our opinion was not unanimous but the great majority felt Turner is guilty.

If the story fascinates you, read the whole police report:
https://www.scribd.com/doc/315432156/Brock-Turner-police-report

Read the full victim statement too, since that is vital to understanding how this became of global interest. It is also a useful introduction for anyone wanting to learn about rape.

Then you could read our old threads on the subject, there were several but they are not hard to find. That will keep you busy for a few hours, you will learn a lot and be in a much better position to get taken seriously if you still want to discuss it. But if you try to get people to watch a video you won't get much engagement.

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[–]TheMythof_Feminism 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]hfiggs 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

You just defeated yourself. #2 negates #3. Even though he was drunk, he was still responsible for his person. And his person raped someone.

Read this:

On January 18, 2015, at about 1 a.m., two male Stanford graduate students were riding their bikes through campus when they spotted a man on top of a woman near a dumpster. The woman did not appear to be moving. The students approached the man, who fled, leaving the woman, unconscious and partially naked, on the ground. One of the students chased him and held him down while the police was called. The man was identified as Brock Turner.

Turner and the woman had attended the same party that night and were intoxicated; Turner’s blood-alcohol level was double the legal limit at the time, and the woman’s was three times the legal limit. Turner admitted to engaging in sexual contact with the woman, but said she had given consent. The victim testified that she had no memory of the assault, and in her statement last week said she loses sleep “when I think about the way it could have gone if the two guys had never come.”

It wasn’t “he said, she said.” Two bystanders (both men I might add) saw the event and immediately knew what was happening: rape.

[–]TheMythof_Feminism 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Even though he was drunk, he was still responsible for his person.

/facepalm

/u/hfiggs , I legitimately do not understand how you could have the level of cognitive dissonance to make an argument to the extent of;

"Yes, they were both drunk, but she is completely absolved of her personal responsibility [because she's a woman] and he is required to exercise full levels of personal responsibility [because he's a man] and this must extend to law"

What in the holy motherless goat are you talking about? either being drunk absolves you of your responsibility, or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways.

It wasn’t “he said, she said.”

That would be a very generous take in favor of the woman if we laid it out like that. No, this is quite simply, drunken sex. It isn't even debatable, you have acknowledged that the man was drunk, and from what I have read, he appeared to be very drunk at that, or drunk and high, I don't know, but he was most defintiely not sober.

[–]hfiggs 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheMythof_Feminism 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

And I never said she was absolved of her personal responsibility.

Correct.

Very well, your argument singled the man out and by implication the woman was absolved. I retract the claim. What is your actual argument then because without that lynchpin, your argument fully collapses.

Just because you are responsible for your own person, doesn’t make it okay for others to commit a crime against you.

What in the holy motherless goat are you talking about?

It is established that she specifically went to that party with the express purpose to get drunk off her ass [More specifically, she went to "have fun" and that includes drinking a lot]. That's not debatable. It is established that this is not her first rodeo and that is not debatable either..... she almost assuredly went to that party thinking of booze and sex.

So what is your argmuent exactly? mine is that they were both drunk and therefore, no crime occurred. Not even the hints of a crime since both went to that party to get druink and have sex.

Serious question; Have you ever been to one of these types of parties...? ever? what do you think happens there? do you think people don't get shitface-drunk and fuck in the parking lot? in the bathroom? in a closet? etc.? this is incredibly common. This was not a crime.

Yes she should have exercised more responsibility while drinking

They both should have. But that's besides the point, they were both drunk as fuck. There is no crime here.

Again, either personal responsibility exists or it doesn't. You cannot have it both ways no matter how hard you try.

[–]hfiggs 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheMythof_Feminism 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What do you mean what do I mean?

... when did I say "what do you mean?" wtf?

What I expressed multiple times, colorfully I admit, is that you need to present your argument rather than beating around the bush.

if someone busts down my door and shoots me, its not my fault. Even if both of us were drunk, its still not my fault. It’s the shooter’s fault 100% of the time.

/facepalm

So your attempt to use an analogy is to characterize the parallel to the man, as a murderer that breaks into a woman's domicile and guns her down in cold blood? that's your argument?

I legitimately cannot even begin to fathom how you could make such a stupid attempt at a parallel. No, that doesn't fit, at all.

I never said you can have it both ways.

You literally just expressed it in your asinine analogy.

Your cognitive dissoance is off the charts.

The “she was asking for it” argument is invalid.

Strawman argument.

I have given you ample opportunity to present an actual argument. You didn't. I can only conclude that you have nothing of value to say..... next time, at bare minimum, answer the question you are presented with, when the prompt is done.

gg'd.

[–]hfiggs 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Let me start off by saying: Stop with the goddamn ad hominems! You are driving me crazy. Who the fuck cares about my “cognitive dissonance”? How is that even relevant to the conversation?!

I really try to keep conversations civil, but half of your replies are useless insults that detract from the actual content.

Now, first:

...when did I say “what do you mean?” wtf

You said it right here:

What in the holy motherless goat are you talking about?

Second:

...breaks into a woman’s domicile...

I am guessing at this point you have assumed I am a woman. The analogy I used contained a “shooter” and me. But you inserted “woman” into my story.

I am a man.

Third:

My analogy wasn’t a 1:1 comparison. Obviously murder isn’t on par with rape. I don’t know why you would assume I think that. That’s why its an analogy.

How did my analogy express that being drunk absolves you from responsibility? I made it clear that it didn’t matter if we were drunk or sober.

I am now formally stating that there is nothing you can do to absolve your own personal responsibility. But can you define personal responsibility for me? Because I think the discrepancy of our definitions may be leading to disagreement.

Fourth:

next time, at bare minimum, answer the question you are presented with

You can’t just edit your comments without declaring it. I am almost certain your question in bold was not in your original post. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure you made multiple edits.

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Title	Youtuber AIU believes Brock Turner is innocent. What would you say?
Author	ifelsedowhile
Upvotes	1
Comments	54
Date	August 12, 2018 6:14 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/96r1nu/youtuber_aiu_believes_brock_turner_is_innocent/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/youtuber-aiu-believes-brock-turner-is-innocent.896284 https://theredarchive.com/post/896284

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