What would it take to rebuild fatherhood?

girlwriteswhat · 2011-10-13T15:12:13+00:00

Yeah, commitment from women.

What have we been telling men for the last 40 years or so? Be a good partner, try to be a good husband, listen more, be more emotionally available, take care of the ones you love, support your partner emotionally (and at least help support her financially), be open to and supportive of her choices, do your best to meet her needs.

What have we been telling women? You do what's best for you, honey. That's the most important thing.

We'll go out of our way to laud women's interpersonal or humanitarian/giving traits in a work setting, but any attempts to instill in women some sense of providing valuable "human services" in the context of a relationship is met with cries of unfair criticism and wanting to keep women subservient to men. We've taught women to put themselves first in relationships. The phrase "try to be a good wife" is an evil manifestation of the last vestiges of patriarchal oppression.

How do you build a future with someone who's been "trained" by society to put their personal needs before every other consideration in every conceivable relationship situation, and that their "responsibility" to themselves should always be foremost? And kids are a future one cannot extricate oneself from.

We can't rebuild fatherhood without a commitment from women. Not when the commitment of fatherhood can turn into something costly and painful (child support and denial of access) on the whim of a woman.

Offensive_Brute · 2011-10-13T14:28:21+00:00

If the law could arbitrarily remove a child from the life of the mother, but the mother was still expected to support the child, wouldn't women be disenfranchised with motherhood?

This is what men deal with. the mother of your children wants new dick, so you gotta go, the kids stay with her and you have to pay. Don't worry though, you get the privilege to babysit while she fucks her new boyfriend in your house. Legal intervention into the family unit has made it so that the law and the mother can conspire to use your children as a weapon to emasculate you in some of the worst imaginable ways.

carchamp1 · 2011-10-13T13:01:15+00:00

Make it worthwhile for men to be fathers. Give them a right to parent their children and remove the burden of enslavement to mom. As long as fatherhood = wallet don't expect guys to be into it.

Liverotto · 2011-10-13T21:10:56+00:00

Nothing, really, it is gone.

History teaches us that when a society arrives at this point it either vegetate in the same state for decades or suddenly collapses.

All Great Civilization have failed, you really think Western Civilization will never ever fail?

EtovNowd · 2011-10-13T18:13:44+00:00

End the notion that women are legally entitled to things simply because they're women, and mothers.

End the mentality that men don't need to express emotions to be 'real men', leading them to never saying "I love you" to their wife or kids, or even an "I'm proud" moment.

Point out the hypocrisy in relationships.

I think a good father comes from being a happy father. A happy father lives in a happy home. A happy father comes home to a happy wife. The happy relationship between mother and father, strengthens the bond between the family, and thus positive role-models are present.

I think we need men being more expressive to their wives, because women have a (societal) innate tendency to be appreciated, needed, desired etc. and men in-turn have an innate (societal) aspect that they don't 'need' anyone to survive because "we're men". Buy her flowers, have a 'date night', accept that it may not be the best relationship in the world but you're going to try and make it the best. Rekindle the flame. Women, accept that your husband is going to get more attractive as he ages, more desirable, and thus it's your job to keep him sexually, emotionally, and visually attracted to you as you age (and get less desirable).

Don't cut your hair short and look like my mom/a man.

Don't gain weight and expect me to keep an erection at your naked body.

Don't use sex as a reward/punishment system. If you don't enjoy having it with me, then either learn what you like and tell me, OR let's explore together.

Don't stop doing things 'because you're married'... your job has no become to keep your man satisfied. Can't do it because you're raising kids, cooking, cleaning, and working? Then tell your man he needs to step up so you can get pretty for him. Men, stop being insecure. If your woman looks good, and she dolls herself up, don't get jealous/mad that other men are looking at her. Take that as a compliment. Know that this means she's still attractive, and take joy in knowing that you're going to be the one to take her back home and bend over the couch. You go boy!

I think we need women to stop devaluing their men in any aspect. Comments such as "I should've listen to my XYZ and married ABC...", "Can't you do anything right?!", "Why can't we afford to buy a 123!!!"... etc. We need women to learn the proper form of communication, and rather then complain that men 'don't communicate', they need to accept that they're the ones who fail at communicating. Statements like "He should know how I feel", or "He should know why I'm mad", "Why do you think I'm mad..." are not communications. I'll always say "you're on your rag" because it's the simplest logical answer. Men aren't dumb because they're simple, it's called logic. I just say it to piss you off because you piss me off. So stop pissing me off, I'll do the same. Communicate.

Even when relationships don't last, Men and Women need to come together and say "Hey it didn't work out, but let's at least give our children the best upbringing we can"... That means no bashing the spouse, simply because they're moving on quicker than you are, no complaining about how your spouse has all your money, no transference of anger from the situation unto the spouse. It's a f'ed situation, it's a an f'ed up system, but we live in it, and we just got to do our best.

/idealist

Also, people definitely need to get over 'the one' aspect. It doesn't exist. It's a fairy-tale. You pick someone (or have them forced on you) and you do your best.

Liverotto · 2011-10-13T21:17:55+00:00

Nothing, really, it is gone.

History teaches us that when a society arrives at this point it either vegetates for decades or suddenly collapses.

All Great Civilization have failed, you really think Western Civilization will never ever fail?

Demonspawn · 2011-10-13T16:38:16+00:00

What will it take? Repealing the 19th Amendment.

I know that sounds extreme, but it's true. Why is fatherhood dead today? Because so many women have replaced the man with the government and it's services (including extorting from said man). Government as surrogate father came from women's voting patterns generating an ever expansive nanny-state which takes care of women first. As long as family law leans so heavily towards women, women will continue to divorce men, never marry men, or simply go get a sperm donation to keep from having to compromise at all with the Father.

As long as government is replacing the father, we cannot rebuild fatherhood (because mothers will always have that other option). As long as women have the vote, we cannot reverse the laws which exist that allow government to replace the father. Only once those conditions have been removed can we start to rebuild fatherhood. Until that moment, the only way to "rebuild fatherhood" is to shame men into being destroyed by the family court system.

Title	What would it take to rebuild fatherhood?
Author	melb22
Upvotes	11
Comments	19
Date	October 13, 2011 12:17 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/laqqc/what_would_it_take_to_rebuild_fatherhood/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-would-it-take-to-rebuild-fatherhood.1033219 https://theredarchive.com/post/1033219