Isn't this subreddit getting kind of biased?

trollrater9000 · 2012-05-23T16:32:54+00:00

concern troll too obvious

1.2/10

Celda · 2012-05-23T16:31:26+00:00

As this statement is the crux of your post:

Valid points are being dismissed because they were made by people who claim to be feminists.

Can you provide examples, that is two or more?

FF15 · 2012-05-23T16:33:16+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Scott2508 · 2012-05-23T16:35:57+00:00

now the moment you said that radfems bring up valid points . well i knew you were full of shit , this is an effort to try shaming tactics to get us "behaving" but now , we arent extreme if we were we wouldnt have females who post and are MASSIVELY respected , so thank you but no

zyk0s · 2012-05-23T17:08:25+00:00

Ok, let's question ourselves for a minute, it's a healthy exercise.

If we are being the unjust party, and most feminists truly just want to help us, let's set two things straight. First, that no matter how many feminists you can find that "just want to talk" and show us the path of light, the situations we are talking about aren't changing. Nothing is being done. Second, that some (see, I'm being nice here) have achieved social and political change by clearly labeling men as the bad guys. That's how you got guilty until proven innocent of rape, VAWA, gender quotas and programs for women only, alimony and child support, primary custody. All these things hinge on "men bad, women good". So this tactic works beautifully.

So there's two possibilities. One is that we are the bad guys for shunning feminists, but we're going to use their tactics because they work, and we have no other options. And you won't be able to change our minds, because again, we're the bad guys. The second is that we're the good guys, so by that token asking us to let feminists continue what they are doing is siding with them, and you'd be a bad person yourself. What does that make of your intervention?

FF15 · 2012-05-23T17:25:13+00:00

Please show me examples of all the egalitarian feminists who are taking responsibility for the supremacy and hatefulness of the feminist movement. I'll start:

Dr. Christina Hoff-Sommers (Declared a heretic and cast out of the mainstream feminist movement for making well-researched and valid criticisms)

Any others?

bovedieu · 2012-05-23T16:38:38+00:00

But are they blaming YOU specifically for this? Are they saying that YOU actively oppress women and that YOU vastly benefit from this?

Yes. And if you don't see it, you've been drinking the Kool-Aid. The fact is that if they aren't blaming us, then why do they need to bring it up at all? Why don't they focus on current issues, provide examples and legitimate statistics, and discuss them with openness and an understanding that they might be wrong?

And they don't, they really don't.

I agree in principle; every subreddit has its drama and ours is the divisive dualistic bullshit that really doesn't help our cause and is responsible for the ridiculous tone and concerns of the feminist movement so far. We need to be open, certainly.

But you are wrong to say that we should have to deal with their revisionist history. And if they want to discuss with us, they have to throw this ridiculous blame out the window and acknowledge the truth - everyone suffers when there isn't equality. It isn't a one-up, one-down relationship. Men had to do all the work when women weren't allowed to. Women were forced into marriage and childbirth, but forced out of war and responsibility.

Inequality isn't good for anyone. So until they drop this blame for our entire gender, they will always be at odds with us. I want any "feminist" who shares this middle ground with me to speak up, because I never hear that voice of reason.

FF15 · 2012-05-23T16:40:46+00:00

Can you link to examples of feminists being dismissed for making valid points because they are feminists or are you a feminist, making false claims?

Thats the way feminists treat mra's but mra's a generally more intellectually honest. I'm thinking you are a feminist, projecting.

Alanna · 2012-05-23T19:40:46+00:00

Another one of these?

Even moderate feminism is being depicted as extreme through sensationalist titles and statements being taken out of context.

No, moderate feminism is being correctly depicted as misandrist. Some headlines are misquoted/sensationalized, and those are generally called out.

Furthermore, instances of discrimination against men are consistently being taken at face value, while instances of discrimination against women are brought to scrutiny. It is almost as if some of you deny that there is discrimination against women in society as well.

We deny there is institutional, systemic discrimination against women in Western society, yes. That's not to say there are individuals out there who discriminate, and you will always have that. But that is different than being, for example, systematically excluded from 60 passages of the largest anti-sexual-violence legislation of the last twenty years.

there is plenty of evidence to suggest that societies on this planet have been built on patriarchy.

No, there isn't.

But are they blaming YOU specifically for this?

Yes, they are. Well, not me, I'm a woman, but they are specifically blaming men as a class for this.

Are they saying that YOU actively oppress women and that YOU vastly benefit from this?

Yeah, by denying male victims of IPV and rape, working against all men fighting to see their kids because a tiny few are abusers, claiming women never lie about rape? Yeah, that's exactly what they're saying.

even fewer would deny that the "patriarchy" is harmful to men as well as women.

Yeah, Patriarchy Hurts Men Too. Is that like how men being the vast majority of violent crime victims, including homicide, just doesn't count because the majority of perpetrators are male too?

or picking and choosing those who do hold those opinions among them to represent all feminists

It's not like we cherry-pick random feminists who support our claims. We don't have to. Why try to claim that EveBitFirst or RadFemHub are representative of mainstream feminism when you have Shakesville, Pandagon, Jezebel, Feministe, Feministing, Finally Feminism 101, Manboobz, and NOW all so widely popular and such recognized authorities and luminaries in feminism?

I don't believe that they should be affected by the stigma that seems to surround feminism here just because of this arbitrary choice of title.

Your choice of ideological label should not be "arbitrary." If it is, you have absolutely no one to blame but yourself when people make reasonable assumptions based on that label. It would be like trying to defend a member of the Westboro Baptist Church who tries to say he doesn't really hate gays.

We must all keep in mind the concerns of all people, women and men included.

Why? The one thing every feminist who comes through here can agree on is that feminism is a movement for the equality of women. Their focus is on women and women's issues. They are not concerned with the millions of baby boys who are genitally mutilated. They are not concerned with 90% of the prison population being male. They are not concerned with men falling behind in education; on the contrary, they continue to claim that we need to do more to help women. They are not concerned with the lack of male reproductive options. They're certainly not concerned about men being denied custody or access to their kids (NOW actively and vociferously lobbies against shared custody). They are not concerned with the suicide rate for men (3 times that of women) or the disparity between spending on male and female illnesses (breast cancer WAY outpaces prostate cancer, even though prostate cancer kills more men than breast cancer does women).

Most MR supporters aren't trying to deny women rights. It's feminists who frame MRAs trying to secure rights for themselves as taking them away from women.

Demonspawn · 2012-05-23T16:42:32+00:00

there is plenty of evidence to suggest that societies on this planet have been built on patriarchy.

Have you ever stopped and considered that there might be a reason why virtually all successful societies are built on patriarchy?

rightsbot · 2012-05-23T16:24:17+00:00

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FF15 · 2012-05-23T16:53:45+00:00

Feminism is an anti male hate movement. There is no such thing as a feminist that is 'not like that'. Feminist concern troll, like all other feminist concern trolls, can feel free to take her 'question for mens rights' and shove it up her ass....

Feminism is an evil ideology that deserves nothing less than utter annihilation.

Title	Isn't this subreddit getting kind of biased?
Author	FF15
Upvotes	0
Comments	82
Date	May 23, 2012 4:22 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/u16ow/isnt_this_subreddit_getting_kind_of_biased/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/isnt-this-subreddit-getting-kind-of-biased.1021235 https://theredarchive.com/post/1021235

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