The quest for self-validation

ParadoxThatDrivesUs · 2016-03-30T06:12:45+00:00

You mention building frame. I've been thinking of making a separate post on this, but for now I'll just plant some thoughts here.

I think new people, myself included, get the wrong idea about building and maintaining frame. A lot of the reading makes it sound like a mental trick, something you get by thinking the right thoughts or thinking or feeling the right way. The idea of passing shit tests plays into this as well, because the reading makes it sound like that's also about some mental trick, like solving a riddle.

I've come to believe, though, that this is putting the cart before the horse. The end result - keeping frame and passing shit tests - is indeed a new way of thinking and feeling, but you don't get there by trying to somehow have the right thoughts or feelings. That's like trying to feel confident in the boxing ring by trying to think the right thoughts. But that's not how it works. You feel confident in the boxing ring by training your ass off for years making yourself bigger and stronger and faster and tougher than the other guy. Then when you step into the ring, you don't have to try to feel confident. You just are confident.

So how do you actually build frame? To myself, I think of it in four steps.

First, you get yourself together. Lift. Dial in your diet and weight. Hygiene. Decent clothes. This might take a while. Hell, in this day and age, most modern Americans literally go their entire lives without ever getting themselves together in a real way. And yet, it's perfectly possible to do. All it takes is a whole lot of small decisions strung together in a row - lift this, eat that, brush your teeth, wear this, and so on. Discipline.

Second, get your shit together. Exactly what "your shit" is will vary from man to man, but it basically means get control over all of the loose ends and open loops that you have to be on top of to get by and get ahead in this life. For me, it means staying on top of a calendar and a to do list, and actually doing the shit on the list. Again, it's rare to see, but not really that hard. Just more discipline.

Third, you need a vision for your life. I'm still working on this myself, but once you've got yourself together and have your shit together, then you need a clear idea of where you're going. Not what your wife or your parents or anyone else thinks you should be doing. It has to be your vision. You were born alone, you'll die alone, you're the captain of your soul - so what are you going to do with the time you have?

Finally, you need to find a way to encourage others - particularly your wife - to join your vision. Not to coerce them to follow you, but rather to make your vision so damn fun and exciting and thrilling and adventurous that they can't wait to join you. Charisma.

Imagine Brad Pitt with his life totally on point, with a clear vision of exactly where he wants to go and he wants everyone to join him and have a blast. That guy doesn't have to worry about holding frame or passing shit tests, or thinking the right way or feeling the right way. He's already put in the work behind the scenes, and so it all just falls into place.

That I believe is how you build frame.

Itstinksoutthere · 2016-03-30T05:02:47+00:00

Just keep at it. What you'll notice at first is that after the fact you will think more about how you react to situations. Then you will think about what could have been done better. Then it will start to become more natural. Just remember to lift. This will help you the most. When you look in the mirror and see how awesome you are you won't need anyone else to tell you so. It sounds like mentally your getting your shit straight make ssure you are matching that physically as well and things will start to get easier.

cj_aubrey · 2016-03-30T09:25:32+00:00

Lack of self validation was a big problem for me in the past but I've largely solved it. For me, my dynamic with self worth was based in a few lies (and they are lies) that I had been telling myself for decades.

That I am not valuable enough as I am (without outside interference).
That I can get more value (enough value) from other people's positive opinions.
That I can engage in covert contracts to ensure I get their positive opinion (NMMNG).
That if I give others the right to decide for me what I should think and how I should feel I will secure their positive opinions (WISNIFG).
That if I get enough positive opinions (validation) from others I'll finally feel good.

The problem for me was that by trying to live according to those lies I made myself worse. Then I read something that suggested the problem was not worth or emotional security but connection. In the pre-historic past human being lived and died by their connection to other humans, the tribe and natural processes. In our modern life we've lost that connection and there is an argument that this is not what we were built for. You say you feel insecure. Ask yourself for a minute whether "disconnected" might be a more accurate description. This fit with what I felt. The more I lived according to those lies above, the more people rejected me and the more disconnected I got. So I try to flip each of these around as follows

Stop worrying about whether I'm valuable enough and seek greater connection to people, groups, work, the universe, whatever. Try to help people in every relationship.
Stop trying to get individuals to give me their positive opinion. Seek greater connection with them by being a friend, being helpful or giving them something.
Stop engaging in covert contracts and just try to be a friend among friends and a worker among workers.
Make my decisions for myself and be a solid person that people can rely on.

So now I seek connection. That's why I'm here helping you. That's why I work hard at my job. I put in the time to maintain friendships with other men. I try to connect with my wife by giving her the strong masculine presence she wants to connect with. I give of myself to my children. I volunteer. I give money away. I mediate to connect with now. I pray to connect with the universe. I try to help people. And when I do all this I feel connected. And I don't need anything from anyone. I already have it all. And that's what I really wanted in the first place even though I didn't know it.

WhiteTrashKiller · 2016-03-30T04:59:53+00:00

You seek validation because it is nice to get, makes you feel special. Mommy used to do it, so we got used to it, crave it even but your relationship isn't a mommy son relationship. You wouldn't wanna fuck Mommy and she doesn't wanna be your Mom......

You are not a special snowflake....

Your validation should be that you get to lay your head down on your pillow at the end of the day knowing you earned it. You cannot get that from someone else....

Cut the cord.........

If you have this much time to ponder it, you need more gym time......

druganswer · 2016-03-30T05:26:44+00:00

IMO the gym and diet is a cure for this. You can see your lifts and body progressing and it gives you something to focus on that also happens to provide predictable improvement in your SMV.

Your clothes start to fit better or you buy new clothes that fit well, you start walking around with a more confident swagger and attitude because you just feel more manly... basically in my personal opinion it all starts in the gym.

Obviously focus on improvement in every area so that you don't have some huge insecurity... and the few things you can't change? Deep acceptance of those things. Also pretty generic but "own your shit," in general.

So I guess my question for you (without digging through your history) is: Have you been hitting the gym regularly? Is your diet on point? Is the gym something you dread or have you gotten to the point where you look forward to it? Are you making progress? If not have you looked into problems you might be having? Tracking calories and protein will help in your weight loss or gain goals and make sure you don't feel like you're just wasting time at the gym.

EDIT: No surprise that three answers came in almost simultaneously and they all included lift.

Persaeus · 2016-03-30T08:22:41+00:00

I'll tell my wife I want more emotional investment from her. Whether she does it or not is her choice, but I know I'm more invested when she's invested too.

Note that this doesn't solve your issue. Your issue is inner game and requires repeated exposure to stimuli. You can't lie your way into believing something. You have to get that exposure and those reference experiences.

-TheCaptain · 2016-03-30T13:08:46+00:00

Have you read The Obstacle is the Way?

-TheCaptain · 2016-03-30T12:01:30+00:00

Hardship man.

Have you ever been in a situation that was brutal, and had no one to rely on? Some guys get lucky and find them early, some later. Some get it when they ask loved ones when they are down, and left flapping in the wind?

End of the day, look at idiots around you. They are surviving, you'll be fine

-TheCaptain · 2016-03-30T13:50:21+00:00

There is a book called Feeling Good by Dr. David Burns that teaches a way of using self-talk to help you use logic to get behind the bullshit of your self-sabotaging thoughts.

This may sound stupid to some, but I journal my thoughts, because the process of writing things out helps me process my thinking and move in a more rational, logical direction. I do this especially when I'm stuck on some kind of self-sabotage.

-TheCaptain · 2016-03-30T14:46:16+00:00

No More Mr Nice Guy - is specifically written about approval seeking behavior. Based on what you just said, you will need to read and study it more than once. I know, I have/did/do….

bogeyd6 · 2016-03-30T15:21:35+00:00

This is what I did. YMMV. I always had alot of self-respect, character, and determination. These things toned them up.

I hit the gym hard, by myself. No training partner. Just me and squat cage. I still work out alone even a year later.
I joined a male hobby club.
I went on hikes in the wilderness by myself.
Took control of my finances and schedule.

Eventually over time you learn to count on yourself when you do things by yourself.

Title	The quest for self-validation
Author	-TheCaptain
Upvotes	4
Comments	47
Date	March 30, 2016 4:02 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askMRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/4cj71p/the_quest_for_selfvalidation/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/the-quest-for-self-validation.207549 https://theredarchive.com/post/207549

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