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On my newsfeed posted by a woman. Kind of nice seeing as how there haven't even been formal charges made.

[deleted]

December 28, 2012

30 upvotes

/r/MensRights

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Title	On my newsfeed posted by a woman. Kind of nice seeing as how there haven't even been formal charges made.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	30
Comments	26
Date	December 28, 2012 6:46 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/15l18g/on_my_newsfeed_posted_by_a_woman_kind_of_nice/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/on-my-newsfeed-posted-by-a-woman-kind-of-nice.1005576 https://theredarchive.com/post/1005576

Comments

[–]Reaperdude97 10 points11 points12 points 13 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]DerpaNerb 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Reaperdude97 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]DerpaNerb 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]mordicaii -1 points0 points1 point 13 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]mordicaii 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]mordicaii 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DerpaNerb 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mikhael_Varpole 6 points7 points8 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]mordicaii 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think you may have missed my point. Nobody 'asks for it', that notion is ridiculous. Just for a second, let's assume that she was indeed raped and that there is no question as to whether or not the event happened. The football players are indeed at primary fault, they committed the crime, they do the time, justice is served, two rapists are in prison for their transgressions. I don't think anyone will deny that. However, some responsibility does fall on the victim, she may not have 'brought it upon herself' or 'asked for it', but, had she not put herself in a potentially dangerous situation (inviting two incredibly strong men that she does not know into her hotel room), it likely would not have happened. That isn't to say that she is completely at fault, it is much more so the fault of the rapists, they could have chosen not to rape the poor girl, they chose to, they reap the consequences.

However, like walking down that dark alley, you know that something bad may happen, but you take the risk anyway, you have put yourself into a situation wherein you can be harmed, by taking that risk, you assume part of the responsibility of something bad happening. The person who mugs you, stabs you, or otherwise harms is very much the one to blame in the situation, but you cannot deny that the person who accepts the risk assumes part of the responsibility of it happening, for if they had not been there, their fate could have been avoided.

Another example. If you were to go into the more minority inhabited areas of your city (assuming you are White or Asian) and start spouting off racial obscenities, don't be surprised when you are attacked, or at the very least, confronted about it. It is primarily the fault of the people attacking/confronting you for not controlling themselves, but you walked into that situation, had you not awoken the lion, you likely would not have been bitten.

[–]DerpaNerb 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]OuiCrudites 4 points5 points6 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ExpendableOne 3 points4 points5 points 13 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]DerpaNerb 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 13 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Grapeban 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 2 points3 points4 points 13 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Oh those poor, poor football players, I mean, how were they meant to react when they were invited back to a woman's room, not have sex? Don't be ridiculous, men can't be held responsible for their actions, only women.

Last I checked a devils threeway wasn't a crime.

So what actions should they be held responsible for if consent was given?

Frankly this woman had better be careful, because she could really mess up these guys lives. Maybe she should consider how much of this was her fault, and if it's really worth upsetting their lives over the whole issue.

If this is a false accusation (and all accusations should be assumed false until proof is provided) then yes.

In fact, maybe the police should make that call for her, just not investigate, because frankly the details are sketchy and her actions were pretty sketchy and it's not really worth upsetting those fine young men.

Actually people like you often advocate others making the call, sans investigation because you need to get that conviction.

[–]Grapeban 1 point2 points3 points 13 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

That's the most twisted version of "innocent till proven guilty" I've ever seen.

Innocent until proven guilty seems to be a very offensive notion to some people.

You don't assume the accuser is a criminal, that's fucking madness, that would mean that if we couldn't prove the crime (bearing in mind that rape is quite a hard crime to prove) then you would arrest the victim. No-one would report rapes in your situation, because they wouldn't want to be thrown in jail.

I never said you should assume the accuser is a criminal (that would be assuming guilt would it not?). So the rest of your post is nonsense as it follows from a flawed premise.

Is this meant to be an insult? Yes, we "need" to get that conviction in the sense that if someone has been raped then we do in fact need to catch the rapist.

Yes it was an insult. And you missed it. The goal isn't to get a conviction. It is to dispense justice. If that involves a conviction then that is the goal. If that involves exonerating them then that is the goal.

The conviction cannot, in a free state, be the assumed outcome of a trial.

Out of curiosity: do you recognize that innocent men have been jailed for rape based on a mere accusation such as this? And if so do you consider this justice?

[–]Grapeban 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]5th_Law_of_Robotics 0 points1 point2 points 13 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Assuming the accuser is guilty would be assuming guilt, which I am quite clearly against.

You seem hung up on my word choice for some reason even though you obviously understand what I said. An accusation is meaningless on it's own and should never carry the same weight as objective evidence.

Yes I recognise this and of course it isn't justice.

Well that's something. So now you see the problem with giving the accuser such lofty weight in such proceedings?

What I'm saying here is that you can't assume the accuser is lying, you can't not investigate just because you think they're lying, and you can't just start saying, "Well even if she isn't lying it was her fault anyway."

You sure gave that strawman hell.

And innocent till proven guilty doesn't mean you can't provide support to the victim before their claim is proved true.

If it's not true then they aren't a victim. And who is talking about denying them support?