We have seen how Sweden is the "model" of the feminist ideal. Does anyone know just how bad is it over there?

2012-04-18T07:17:47+00:00

I'm curious as to what other legislation has passed that is pseudo-related.

The "Macho on the public transit" thing wasn't a law, it was a stupid blog.

2012-04-18T20:49:33+00:00

I live in Sweden and this is mostly bullshit. Some notes:

Alimony is very rare here, and usually involves special circumstances. It's certainly not standard procedure during divorces.
Circumcision, while not illegal, is regulated and anyone performing it is required to be licensed to do so. The law also demands that effective anaesthetic be used.
We got multiple supreme court rulings affirming that courts may not convict for rape on accusation alone.
Rape cases are handled by the police, and not some panel at your university.
The laws for who is to serve in the armed forces are nowadays gender neutral. In practice this was achieved by removing the mandatory draft for men.

The only explicit differences in legislation between men and women concern abortion, custody, child-benefits and circumcision. Technically there's also a difference in qualification during domestic abuse, but while the title for the crimes differ, the punishments are the same.

The Abortion law basically just makes it the woman's choice. It could in principle be made gender neutral by just saying "the person who is pregnant", but the effect would be the same. This law exists due to an actual biological difference, and kinda makes sense.

When it comes to custody it's basically a matter of how you determine fatherhood, since it's kinda obvious who is the mother.

The law on child support is a relic from the early 20th century, and basically makes the benefits paid by the state go to the woman even during shared custody. There's pressure to reform this law from many places.

The primary present argument for still allowing circumcision is basically that it would likely be pushed underground if prohibited, and Sweden does regulate the procedure. Most official institutions oppose the practice, but for the moment they're favouring trying to work with religious communities to cease the practice instead of banning it. This is basically a matter of strategy.

SpanishGuy · 2012-04-18T06:24:35+00:00

Maybe you shouldn't form your opinion of the situation in Sweden from one article that you don't recall well enough to link to.

Many things are better in Sweden wrt. gender than in the US. For instance, alimony is virtually nonexistent.

Traditional swedish feminism is of a different kind than the one in the English-speaking world. It's like with political parties: When you're in opposition, you can say what you want and get radical, but feminism in Sweden was closely connected to the powerful Labor party, so they were both more influential and more moderate. (Which is not to say it doesn't have its problems.)

In academia, though, and particularly in more recent years, the brand of feminism you know, the one of Dworkin and Solanas, is alive and well. It has been spreading to the more mainstream political feminism, but not without resistance (that was the reason for the forming of the notorious FI party).

If you really want to understand the situation in Sweden, take a look at the blog of Swedish MRA Pelle Billing (I recommend Google Translate to those who can't read it). You'll notice:

Lots of women post there, including as guest writers. Some of these are feminists of an earlier generation, some are younger self-identified feminists.
They have a project to get municipalities to adopt gender neutral language in their programs against domestic abuse, and take violence against men seriously. Municipalities in Sweden are quite independent, so you'll find both those highly influenced by radical (Dworkinite) feminists, and those very favorable to Billing's project.

rightsbot · 2012-04-18T04:52:17+00:00

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melb22 · 2012-04-18T10:16:25+00:00

I have a collection of items on Scandinavian feminism here.

DarthOvious · 2012-04-18T10:55:39+00:00

I thought it had to do with men being able to sit with their legs uncrossed or something.

One thing I remember for sure though, because I saw a picture of it, were bathroom stalls with low ceilings to keep men from peeing standing up.

2012-04-18T10:30:00+00:00

Watch the Swedish documentary "Gender War" on YouTube.

neilmcc · 2012-04-18T05:08:15+00:00

This is a Norwegian documentary but I imagine it's pretty similar in Sweden: http://www.mrctv.org/videos/brainwashing-norway-part-1-gender-equality

http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/government-tyranny/on-trial-for-the-truth/

Title	We have seen how Sweden is the "model" of the feminist ideal. Does anyone know just how bad is it over there?
Author	he_cried_out_WTF
Upvotes	17
Comments	22
Date	April 18, 2012 4:50 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/sfjcj/we_have_seen_how_sweden_is_the_model_of_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/we-have-seen-how-sweden-is-the-model-of-the.1023744 https://theredarchive.com/post/1023744

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