I want to vent my frustration at this thread. You can find my rant in the comments.

a-man-from-earth · 2021-07-08T22:32:46+00:00

Twitter screenshots = rule 11

Algoresball · 2021-07-08T18:16:45+00:00

My grandfather worked Dawn to dusk to support his family. He left his country to move to a slum in NYC and sent every penny of “ disposable income” he earned back to Italy, as soon as he was able to afford a suitable place to live ( for a woman, it didn’t matter that he spent years in squalor), he took a Buss and 2 subway trains to get to work everyday 6 days a week. He refused himself even the most simple luxuries so that his wife snd kids were able to have nice things.

Maybe after all that, he didn’t have the energy to be emotionally supportive all the time, didn’t have the energy for the kinds of grand gestures that women want, but I refuse to see him as an oppressor and my grandmother as oppressed.

You almost never see old Italian American men who don’t speak English because they had to go out and earn a living. But almost half the women from the old neighborhood spoke very broken English because they never even had to learn to communicate outside of their community

Traditional gender rolls sucked for everyone, the idea what men had it easier is bull shit

CodeOfFire · 2021-07-08T19:24:06+00:00

[permanently deleted]

CodeOfFire · 2021-07-08T17:32:32+00:00

Image 1: “Men have to now get women to like them, and a lot of men aren’t likeable.” This cuts both ways. Women have to get men to like them as well. How many women are likeable?

Image 2: OP asks how many men in history have had to get a woman to like them? In his view none and we are the first generation to do so. However, men had to make themselves marriageable. In the past, when day to day survival was harder and life was generally harsher and more challenging this meant that women were selecting men who could be good protectors and providers and societies devoted much time and resources to make men good providers and protectors, including things like bribing and shaming men into fulfilling the protector provider role regardless of how the individual men felt about such an arrangement. Humanity spent generations convincing men that the way to become likeable to women was to be a protector-provider, regardless of whether the men in question thought this was good (and most women still want this sort of man). OP also ignores that there are many myths, legends and folktales that portray men risking life and limb to protect and save women and performing many great deeds to appeal to women and that were meant to show men how to behave. What classes as ‘likeability’ varies across time and culture, although commonalities clearly exist.

OP goes onto to state that women couldn’t do anything without a man because of various laws and the like, and while there is plenty of truth to this it only tells half the story. If a man married a woman in renaissance Europe he took on and became responsible for any debt she had. It was no longer her responsibility to deal with that debt and she wasn’t liable for it. In medieval Europe a woman could divorce a man if she believed he was impotent. In mining towns in England and Wales a common practice would be for the husband to work 8, 9, 10 or hours a day down a mine working in appalling conditions then give his pay packet to his wife who would spend the money. On page 53 of The Boy Crisis, it said that a common saying in Japan is “a good husband is healthy but absent.” Japanese men often give their wives their salaries and receive pocket money from their wives, which is the money they had earned in the first place. On the point of education, most men weren’t educated. Education was mainly the preserve of the aristocracy or nobility and whatever education the commoners received was often related to their work, such as an apprenticeship. Yes, women may have had fewer rights in history, but they also had fewer responsibilities and much of what men made through employment they had to give to their wives as well has having their options curtailed.

Image 3: OP continues by saying that “your grandfather was probably a horrible husband” who at best was “probably emotionally distant and patriarchal.” Gee, I wonder why the men of my grandfather’s generation would have difficulty with their emotions. I wonder what could’ve made both my grandads “emotionally distant?” Oh, I know, both of my grandads, like many other people’s grandads, fought in World War Two and their fathers fought in World War One. So, let’s have a quick look at how WW1 and WW2 would have impacted our grandfathers and great-grandfathers. WW1 destroyed a generation of young men, especially in Europe. Many of the men volunteered believing their King and Country, or their Kaiser, or their Tsar needed them, or that they needed to sacrifice everything for La Patrie or for the Vaterland or Rodina. Many young men were convinced that it was their duty as men to do this, that it was a core part of the masculinity (the protector part). Interestingly, enough in Britain we had the White Feather Campaign, where young women would shame men who hadn’t joined the army. Women played a large part in shaming men to join up. When those men came back, either mentally, or physically scarred, having lost many friends in all due likelihood, many of them were unable to find work damaging the one remaining aspect of their masculinity that they still felt they possessed (Provider). Even if you weren’t injured the war destroyed the mental health of an entire generation of young men at a time when mental health wasn’t really known about or discussed. How could a man, who was shamed, or bribed, or tricked into fighting a horrific and what must have felt like a pointless war, possibly connect emotionally to those around him, especially to his wife and children to whom he would have felt that he couldn’t express his emotions because they still needed him to be the protector and provider (which for a man means putting his emotions second to needs of his family). This man then has a son or sons, and twenty years later another war breaks out and his sons have to go off and do what he did and experience what he did. What emotions would you feel if that was the case, and could you possibly communicate them at a time when it was seen as shameful to do so. Imagine you were the son, you know your dad isn’t quite right, you suspect its because of the war he fought in, you’ve seen how that experience must have affected him everyday for over 18+ years. Now imagine your that son and your being asked and told to do the same thing he did, to go through the same hell he did. You do, you are now probably as mentally damaged as your dad, and it’s still considered shameful to open up about those experiences and you have children yourself. Here we have two generations of men who were psychologically damaged by war and couldn’t express this to anyone around them. In general as well, for men to earn enough money to provide for his wife and children, he would have to essentially disregard his emotions. Because as Warren Farrell once wrote “the more successful they (men) were, the more they learned to repress their feelings, not express their feelings. P. 71, The Boy Crisis. So why are men emotionally distant? That’s why.

Further on OP said, “A lot of men want the same relationships they saw their families had but never thought to ask were the women happy in those situations. The real answer is a lot of them weren’t.” Maybe we should also ask “were the men happy?” How many men do you think would be happy handing over their salaries to their wives? How many men were happy taking on their wives’ debts? How many men were happy repressing themselves so they could adequately provide for their families? How many men were happy being told the only way they could be loved, valued, accepted, or given affection is if they made themselves useful to those around them so they be a Protector-Provider and if they didn’t, they were considered worthless? How would you feel if your wife said a “good husband is healthy but absent?” This is what men had to deal with throughout history. How good do you think it was for them really? Do you think men might on some level realise and decide that actually this whole relationship thing isn’t a good deal for me so why should I bother?

Image 4: OP concludes saying that men these days need to have substance, and many don’t. Well let’s take a look at this. Most women want a man who earns more than her while at the same time being financially independent. If this is the case, then as a woman the higher your salary the less likely you are finding a man who earns more. Many women want a man who has the same or higher education level as her. But why should men go into higher education where they’ll hit with whole “muh patriarchy” bit or can earn more money just doing an apprenticeship in a trade. Many women complain that men just aren’t trying anymore. But why should they? What is there for them? What is there to inspire the male population to achieve great things? It appears that women want men to do the thing that men traditionally had to do while at the same time deriding them as privileged or lacking substance for doing so. If you spend more time on your career or education, that means less time for hobbies or gaining substance and a balanced approach needs to be taken. Also, women have an entire ideology (feminism), thousands of activists, dozens of organisations, programs and quotas (many of which receive state funding) with the sole focus of ensuring that women succeed. Whereas men don’t. So is it any wonder that women are now outpacing men?

Finally, obviously you should have substance, you should have friends, hobbies and interests and you should try to better yourself. But your motivation for doing so shouldn’t be because you want a woman. You should do it because you want to improve yourself and because virtue is its own reward. I mean if men need to put all this effort into getting into a relationship with a woman this does raise the question, “What makes women think their worth the effort.” I don’t want to sound as if I’m blaming women or anything like that, but I think that is a question that many men are now asking themselves.

CourageousGoblin · 2021-07-08T21:01:08+00:00

"all men suck besides me (follow me by the way)"

2021-07-08T21:47:25+00:00

I think the most damning thing about that thread is that FDS replied and agreed to it. If FDS is agreeing to what you're saying, you're doing something very wrong.

TintelFroot · 2021-07-08T22:08:34+00:00

Man he’s desperate for some female attention.

Title	I want to vent my frustration at this thread. You can find my rant in the comments.
Author	CodeOfFire
Upvotes	13
Comments	11
Date	July 8, 2021 5:31 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/ogc2s6/i_want_to_vent_my_frustration_at_this_thread_you/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/i-want-to-vent-my-frustration-at-this-thread-you.1060948 https://theredarchive.com/post/1060948

Comments