This first thing said is that there are many different kinds or strands of feminism, and it's really only one type or strand that is problematic (to which the other guy responds that that is the only strand he knows).
The second point was referencing an article interviewing one of them with the title 'Do men really have it easier' with the answer being 'it's complex'.
Zander's perspective is that he didn't realise before he transitioned that people had lower expectations of him or as more vulnerable pre-transition. He didn't think of himself that way but hadn't internalised that framework. His framework had been 'yeah protect women because women are better'. He found that somehow he became invisible as a man and drew less attention. Which initially he liked. But that was also a drawback, as people didn't take any time to get to know him or engage in conversations with him anymore. Sisterhood was easy to be a part of and now he was excluded. Brotherhood was a much more deliberate and effortful thing for him and something he's still working on.
Interested in how we treat men and women differently. Somehow he went from being a Mexican American woman to a white man (he lost his Mexican heritage due to people not being as interested in him).
Discussion about the reduction in friendliness and kindness extended to him in public as a man. People are more distant and wary of you and your intentions, not as sympathetic to you.
There's a disconnect between 'men have privilege' assertions as a blanket truth that clearly doesn't mean anything to homeless men.
Mixed messages - be more in touch with your emotions, but then if you cry they are 'man tears'. Don't know how young men could navigate this impossible situation (easier if you are older and have more experience/perspective).
Men ARE listened to more. When you speak it's not like what you are saying is more important. But people stop and listen to you more when you speak. So that is a privilege. More is expected of you so you don't shine as easily (you are expected to do more as a man).
If you are a male and talking about your feelings about something then definitely that is not taken as seriously as before. In a female dominated profession the male voice is less appreciated.
Also, men expressing emotion isn't something that women enjoy, it's something that makes them afraid and they don't want it to happen.
Wanting to struggle or strike something as a part of processing intense emotions is something that 13-14 year old boys go through with their testosterone. (this is clearly speculation on the part of these trans-men as they all transitioned later in life)
Boys need to learn that they are different and that's ok. The idea that they world will be a better place once men start acting more like women is wrong.
Masculine rituals of smashing stuff when grieving are being ignored and suppressed. There's a restriction on men grieving, almost like they don't. Theory that ptsd is caused by not being able to process grief properly.
Discussion of origins of trans men being in utero testosterone infusion vs social construction. All basically on board with the testosterone theory, leery of the social construction theory.
On being used as an example of left wing ideology: There's a difference between supporting civil rights which I do, and a utopian social movement which wants to overturn all gender norms which I don't agree with.
[–]duhhhh 8 points9 points10 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Strikester101 8 points9 points10 points (7 children) | Copy Link
[+]cromulent_weasel1 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
There's a lot of things there.
This first thing said is that there are many different kinds or strands of feminism, and it's really only one type or strand that is problematic (to which the other guy responds that that is the only strand he knows).
The second point was referencing an article interviewing one of them with the title 'Do men really have it easier' with the answer being 'it's complex'.
Zander's perspective is that he didn't realise before he transitioned that people had lower expectations of him or as more vulnerable pre-transition. He didn't think of himself that way but hadn't internalised that framework. His framework had been 'yeah protect women because women are better'. He found that somehow he became invisible as a man and drew less attention. Which initially he liked. But that was also a drawback, as people didn't take any time to get to know him or engage in conversations with him anymore. Sisterhood was easy to be a part of and now he was excluded. Brotherhood was a much more deliberate and effortful thing for him and something he's still working on.
Interested in how we treat men and women differently. Somehow he went from being a Mexican American woman to a white man (he lost his Mexican heritage due to people not being as interested in him).
Discussion about the reduction in friendliness and kindness extended to him in public as a man. People are more distant and wary of you and your intentions, not as sympathetic to you.
There's a disconnect between 'men have privilege' assertions as a blanket truth that clearly doesn't mean anything to homeless men.
Mixed messages - be more in touch with your emotions, but then if you cry they are 'man tears'. Don't know how young men could navigate this impossible situation (easier if you are older and have more experience/perspective).
Men ARE listened to more. When you speak it's not like what you are saying is more important. But people stop and listen to you more when you speak. So that is a privilege. More is expected of you so you don't shine as easily (you are expected to do more as a man).
If you are a male and talking about your feelings about something then definitely that is not taken as seriously as before. In a female dominated profession the male voice is less appreciated.
Also, men expressing emotion isn't something that women enjoy, it's something that makes them afraid and they don't want it to happen.
Wanting to struggle or strike something as a part of processing intense emotions is something that 13-14 year old boys go through with their testosterone. (this is clearly speculation on the part of these trans-men as they all transitioned later in life)
Boys need to learn that they are different and that's ok. The idea that they world will be a better place once men start acting more like women is wrong.
Masculine rituals of smashing stuff when grieving are being ignored and suppressed. There's a restriction on men grieving, almost like they don't. Theory that ptsd is caused by not being able to process grief properly.
Discussion of origins of trans men being in utero testosterone infusion vs social construction. All basically on board with the testosterone theory, leery of the social construction theory.
On being used as an example of left wing ideology: There's a difference between supporting civil rights which I do, and a utopian social movement which wants to overturn all gender norms which I don't agree with.
[–]ExcellentTraffic123 3 points4 points5 points (3 children) | Copy Link
[–]SchalaZeal01 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]FightHateWithLove 1 point2 points3 points
(1 child) | Copy Link
[–]ExcellentTraffic123 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]funnystor 1 point2 points3 points (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]SchalaZeal01 0 points1 point2 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]YuenHsiaoTieng 2 points3 points4 points (0 children) | Copy Link