Scientific Amercian: "Female Surgeons Are Treated Terribly"

SchalaZeal01 · 2020-03-30T18:23:55+00:00

Someone posted on the Men's Rights version of topic:

The study was not linked and does not appear on the NEJM's frontpage (or any of this month's issues), but I think I found it. Unfortunately, it is self-reported discrimination, which is a terrible way to measure discrimination (I remember a study from the 80s, where a third of African-Americans used to believe discrimination against black people did not exist, even though they experienced it on a daily basis). They find that most of the reported gender discrimination comes from patients, however this study and this study80023-1) found no evidence of discrimination from patients.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022480413009669

Strikester101 · 2020-03-30T14:12:24+00:00

Genuine question: Do you find these posts productive or not? I just want to share because I rather not receive misinformation or selected data from articles.

genkernels · 2020-04-03T02:24:28+00:00

The link seems to not really show what study it means. I'll be looking at this one.

A cross-sectional national survey of general surgery residents administered with the 2018 American Board of Surgery In-Training Examination assessed mistreatment, burnout (evaluated with the use of the modified Maslach Burnout Inventory), and suicidal thoughts during the past year. We used multivariable logistic-regression models to assess the association of mistreatment with burnout and suicidal thoughts.

Not bad.

Among 7409 residents (99.3% of the eligible residents) from all 262 surgical residency programs, 31.9% reported discrimination based on their self-identified gender, 16.6% reported racial discrimination, 30.3% reported verbal or physical abuse (or both), and 10.3% reported sexual harassment. Rates of all mistreatment measures were higher among women; 65.1% of the women reported gender discrimination and 19.9% reported sexual harassment. Patients and patients’ families were the most frequent sources of gender discrimination (as reported by 43.6% of residents) and racial discrimination (47.4%), whereas attending surgeons were the most frequent sources of sexual harassment (27.2%) and abuse (51.9%)...Although models that were not adjusted for mistreatment showed that women were more likely than men to report burnout symptoms (42.4% vs. 35.9%; odds ratio, 1.33; 95% CI, 1.20 to 1.48), the difference was no longer evident after the models were adjusted for mistreatment (odds ratio, 0.90; 95% CI, 0.80 to 1.00).

Proportion of residents reporting mistreatment varied considerably among residency programs (e.g., ranging from 0 to 66.7% for verbal abuse).

All of these findings look pretty significant. Moreover, the press doesn't seem to have made a big deal of one of the nastier findings. A breakdown of just the women's numbers is provided:

Sexual harassment was reported by 10.3% of all residents — 19.9% of women and 3.9% of men. Among women reporting sexual harassment, the sources were most frequently patients or patients’ families (31.2%) and attending surgeons (30.9%), followed by other residents (15.4%) and nurses or staff (11.7%).

And for abuse:

Verbal or emotional abuse was reported by 30.2% of all residents — 33.0% of women and 28.3% of men. The sources were predominantly other surgeons: attendings (52.4%) and other residents (20.2%). Physical abuse was rare (affecting 2.2%) and was reported in similar frequency by men and women.

Moreover:

Respondents were asked to report the frequency (categorized as never, a few times a year, a few times a month, a few times a week, or daily), since the beginning of their residencies, with which they were subject to discrimination based upon their self-identified gender; racial discrimination; discrimination based on past, present, or expected pregnancy, childcare needs, or both; sexual harassment; physical abuse; and verbal or emotional abuse. No definitions of these exposures were provided.

Nearly 50% of residents reported having had experience with at least one form of mistreatment, with 19.0% reporting exposure to mistreatment at least a few times per month and 30.9% reporting exposure a few times per year.

No definitions, this is mostly a good thing (some of the Koss bullshit that resulted in 1 in 5 rapes for instance isn't present here) but it also means we have no idea of the actual severity of some of this stuff and we have to accept the opinions of college students who may be trained to define even small things as gender discrimination or sexual harassment.

Looking at the results, most of it is an "experienced once" sort of thing, which wouldn't really fit the feminist narrative as usual. A nasty 19% report that some form of mistreatment is an ongoing problem however "at least a few times per month". Most of that is verbal, 4.2% of women experience sexual harassment a few times per month at that job.

Here's the best part:

Increasing frequency of exposure to mistreatment exposures was also associated with a stepwise increase in suicidal thoughts, from exposures a few times a year (odds ratio, with no exposure as reference, 2.08; 95% CI, 1.57 to 2.76) to a few times a month or more (odds ratio, 3.07; 95% CI, 2.25 to 4.19). Increasingly frequent duty-hour violations were also associated with a stepwise increase in suicidal thoughts, from 1 to 2 months of violations (odds ratio, with no violations as reference, 1.41; 95% CI, 1.07 to 1.87) to 3 or more months of violations (odds ratio, 2.12; 95% CI, 1.56 to 2.88). Suicidal thoughts were more likely to occur in female residents than in male residents in models that did not adjust for mistreatment (odds ratio, 1.31; 95% CI, 1.03 to 1.67), but this difference did not persist after adjustment for mistreatment (odds ratio, 0.90; 95% CI, 0.69 to 1.18).

Now that's a hell of conclusion to draw, and to be honest, showing the difference between normal mistreatment and duty-hour violations was a pretty good additional variable that they could've neglected to make the conclusion more dire. In short, I believe the results and the problem is probably worse than this study presents.

ThatQueerWerewolf · 2020-03-30T17:31:06+00:00

Men in female dominated fields treated worst than women in male ones, in fact most of the time women in male dominated jobs just wanna feel like a poor victim

Title	Scientific Amercian: "Female Surgeons Are Treated Terribly"
Author	Strikester101
Upvotes	19
Comments	15
Date	March 30, 2020 1:50 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/frr50u/scientific_amercian_female_surgeons_are_treated/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/scientific-amercian-female-surgeons-are-treated.1063767 https://theredarchive.com/post/1063767

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