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"In 2018, more of us need to commit to speaking less generally and more specifically when we’re taking men to task."

LeJacquelope

November 18, 2019
10 upvotes
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
https://metro.co.uk/2017/12/17/2018-need-make-effort-keep-misandry-feminism-7166537/
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Post Information
Title "In 2018, more of us need to commit to speaking less generally and more specifically when we’re taking men to task."
Author

LeJacquelope

Upvotes 10
Comments 20
Date November 18, 2019 5:33 AM UTC
(6 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/dxyw22/in_2018_more_of_us_need_to_commit_to_speaking/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/in-2018-more-of-us-need-to-commit-to-speaking-less.1064386
https://theredarchive.com/post/1064386
Red Pill terms in post
feminismmisandry
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Comments

[–]Egalitarianwhistle 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Clearly written from a feminist point of view. But if they took her advice as a first step then the level of communication would expand exponentially. The reason they won't is because, as a lot of users have pointed out in this sub, feminism has become something of an in-group hierarchy competition. Feminists try to outdo each other in their derision of men generally and MRA's (The author refers to them with the care one would give to the plague.)

​

But yeah, good on her for writing this completely ignored article of self awareness on feminist double standards.

[–]LeJacquelope[S] 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

As one who could still be identified as a MRA, I'm not so fond of MRAs, either, for the same reason I criticize feminism: both sides are hard core gender jingoists. We've got to move past that. The author of that article is calling for a major step past the gender partisanism that has consumed the struggle for equality.

Baby steps and all that.

[–]Egalitarianwhistle 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Having embraced the movement, I am guilty of what you say.

[–]ParanoidAgnostic 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

MRAs tend to attack feminism the way feminists tend to attack men. Women as a group are rarely the target.

The movement which is a gender-flip of feminism (in terms of directing hate at the entirety of a gender) is MGTOW.

[–]LeJacquelope[S] -1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

MRAs tend to attack feminism the way feminists tend to attack men. Women as a group are rarely the target.

True, but as soon as MAGA came along, I watched a lot of MRAs I knew go to the dark side of broadbrushing women as a group. And yeah that's what makes MGTOW undesirable to me.

[–]Oncefa2left-wing male advocate 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

The movement is a lot more restrained than feminism ever was (in part because a lot of MRAs are basically like you are on the topic). But even if it was as bad as feminism, I think a widespread men's rights movement is a necessary step towards true gender equality.

[–]LeJacquelope[S] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

The movement is a lot more restrained than feminism ever was

Until they found MAGA and the alt right. And by they I mean a significant number of MRAs, not all of them. Just visit r/MensRights, they think Kavanaugh is some kind of saint.

[–]LacklustreFriend 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I don't think that's a fair characterisation of r/MensRights. There have always been a wide range of politica opinions in r/MensRights, from far-left to far right. While I do agree there has been a small but noticable trend rightwards in nature (I believe in large part from disillusionment with the left due to failure to address men's issues), I would characterise it more as libertarian than neo-conservative for the most part. The alt right specifically has never has been part of MensRights - in fact, many altrighters hate the MRM for the same reason neocons do.

[–]LeJacquelope[S] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I would characterise it more as libertarian than neo-conservative for the most part.

And these guys still carry a strong element of misogyny (Libertarians for instance believe sexual harassment should be legal) to say the very least. The neo-conservatives will want to hunt you down physically for opposing Selective Service. That's why everyone flat out ignored the Democrats as they put a gender neutral SS bill forward in 2016, and Hillary Clinton even said she'd sign it.

The neo conservatives and Libertarians were not as bad as the alt right but they were bad enough for us as a movement.

[–]LacklustreFriend 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Do you think rightwingers should not be allowed in the MRM at all?

[–]LeJacquelope[S] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I can't control that, but what belief do they have that doesn't contradict us? I didn't even get into the fact that no right winger feels the government should enforce workplace safety laws, even though most people who die as a result are men. The only real reason to join the right wing is for the cause of faux male supremacy - which is just as bad as feminism.

[–]LacklustreFriend 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

As I've said before, just because rightwing advocates don't agree with leftwing advocates on a solution, does not mean they don't agree on the problem. And as we on the left should understand perfectly, you do not have to agree with everything your "side" says. In the context of rightwing MRAs, I see no reason for libertarians have a fundamental incompatibility with the MRM, as they are economically conservative and socially liberal. The emphasis is on socially liberal - there is no inherent reason a libertarian can't object to male (or female) gender roles.

[–]LeJacquelope[S] 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Of course the left and the right agree on the problem. Mostly. The major problem is what the right proposes as solutions.

In the context of rightwing MRAs, I see no reason for libertarians have a fundamental incompatibility with the MRM

Aside from thinking the employer absolutely owns his workplace and should be allowed to sexually harass women...

[–]Oncefa2left-wing male advocate 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminism started out as a women's supremacy movement.

Men's rights has only ever been about equality.

The fact that it exists more on the right than on the left shouldn't push you away from it.

There is this, for example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/

And a poll conducted on r/mensrights showed about an equal number of conservative and liberal posters.

[–]LeJacquelope[S] 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Additional comment: I like how she talks in the article about actual misogyny and how badly it affects women, while calling for an end to fearmongering against men as a group. This is how egalitarian feminism should be - dealing out a hard-hitting rebuke of anti-male sexism while standing her ground on women's legitimate gripes about sexism.

I feel that speaking specifically and less generally is a heck of a tough gold standard, but infinite credit to her for putting it out there. The red pill lies in front of us, can we bear to swallow it?

[–]mewacketergi 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

As rare as the Bigfoot sightings: a self-identified modern feminist speaking publicly about men in a way that has a shred of human dignity and compassion to it.

Edit: Also please note, she speaks fravorable of the idea that bigotry = prejudice + power, so it's not all honey and milk in the Miranda Larbi land, but she's better than most in my book.

[–]acj181st 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't take issue with the idea that abusive bigotry is privilege + power; but the idea that you only evaluate society as a whole to find a power differential is dumb. There is a baseline power differential between various groups, that's true - but the difference is dwarfed by individual power differences.

I don't care about the racist who lives alone out in the country and never interacts with those he hates. But I SHOULD be able to point out the powerful woman who demeans harasses her male subordinates - because she is able to directly impact their lives.

[–]mewacketergi 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't take issue with the idea that abusive bigotry is privilege + power

It is automatic that this idea is then taken further to mean something more: if this the prejudice coming from a group that has no "systematic power", it can be glossed over, and isn't an issue, or just isn't the same.

[–]Melthengylf 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We often joke about collecting male tears but…doesn’t that kind of add to a culture of toxic masculinity where men are forced to be repressed and stoic?

About time

[–]dontpet 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

One thing I learned as a victim in a toxic relationship is that if you aren't receiving 3 compliments or more for every criticism then you are in a toxic relationship.

If I was part of a forum criticising a group, I can't imagine it being ok to not having a loving regard toward that group. That is unless the group is men. Then people feel comfortable spending a whole evening dumping on them.

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