"Transmisandry is actually just transmisogyny!"

goldenjuniper · 2021-11-13T16:46:32+00:00

This is under the same umbrella as a "kill all men" feminist saying, "well of course I don't mean transmen. You're, like, not REALLY a man. I mean, you totally ARE a man but * wink, wink * you know what I'm saying haha..."

HogurDuDesert · 2021-11-14T05:52:55+00:00

Although as a trans-man myself, tbh I've not heard any internet feminist telling that I'm victim of transmysoginy, there's indeed definitely a consistency issue in their argument you present.

At first, as someone else already pointed out very well, there's a point of view issue. To take transwomen as an example, some feminist say that they are the victim of transmysoginy. I believe their logic is that because transwomen are women and have feminine traits, they are discriminated because of that, however a lot of us (incl. me) believe that transwoment are actually the victim of transmisandry, because transwomen are perceived as male by the person they've been discriminated by, and usually hate them for that.

Having laid that logic, and order to keep consistant: if someone goes by the first logic, one should say transmen are the victim of transmisandry, whereas if someone goes by the second logic, then they have to say transmen are the victim of transmysoginy.

PS: i find quite ironic how my auto-correct does not underline (recognise as correct) transmysoginy but not transmisandry....

DistrictAccurate · 2021-11-13T19:07:47+00:00

When a transwoman is told "You're not a real woman." That is seen as transphobic and transmisogyny. Progressives recognize that transwomen are women, and therefore being bigoted against them because of their gender is transmisogyny as a result.

This strongly depends on your perspective. Is saying "you're not a real woman" based on them being women or on them being incorrectly perceived as non-women, as they were assigned male at birth? When evaluating the behavior of the person who misgenders the transwoman, what they are somehow seeing is a failed, dysfunctional male. Just like other forms of non-conformity are sanctioned, so is the "non-conformity" of transwomen for those who want them to conform to the standards of men - which is what they unfortunately insist them to be for they were assigned male at birth. When looking at the behavior we are trying to describe, I'd argue it to be a manifestation of misandry.

Also, looking at TERF's transphobic statements makes it hard to not consider them misandristic, despite women being their targets. If their hostility needs/leads them to deny the sexual identity of these women, then I have a hard time calling that hostility toward women for being women, rather than for being assigned male at birth. Take this transphobic FDS mod, who should have been banned a long time ago, as an example:

The point is Your performative gender role is not what makes you a woman, and it does not make you female. LibFems want to force us pretend it is to accommodate males who dress as women at all of our personal expense. It’s just more dick worship except this dick has a dress on. https://np.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/ds7fce/another_reason_why_liberal_feminism_is_not/f6o246g/

a-man-from-earth · 2021-11-13T23:33:08+00:00

I think it's more a "two sides of the same coin" thing.

FormerAfro · 2021-11-14T00:51:20+00:00

What does understanding transphobia as a form of misogyny or misandry allow us to do that other understandings do not? What fruit can this analysis bear outside of "the discourse"?

LeonDeCool · 2021-11-14T08:13:31+00:00

I kind of agree. TERFS generally see all transpeople as varying shades of failed women, ranging from "not real women" (transwomen) to "women who need to be saved" (transmen) hence the reason the term transmisogyny applies to both groups. There's a common hatred of something deemed to be corrupted femininity, regardless of the person's gender.

I think transmisandry isn't quite developed enough to be named yet, but will be in the near future. I've already experienced it plenty in trans circles, only a matter of time before it bleeds out into the wider consciousness imo. I don't interact with most other transpeople for this reason.

Strangely, TERFS seem to avoid misandry directed towards transmen at all costs. There's a lot of insistence that transmen are absolutely not men but in a "you're on our side" kind of way, not in a "ew, man, kill it" kind of way. Idk if they believe undermining transmen's femininity is a more effective way to shut us up or if they're just afraid acknowledging transmen as men and attacking masculinity from there will backfire.

I will say there's a fair bit of camaraderie where I'm from between older gays and transmen collectively being done with having their identity as men being treated as some original sin that must be washed away, and I think the politically savvy TERFS are afraid to encourage such unapologetic support of men by men. I'm not sure how else to explain why they try so hard to prevent transmen from being acknowledged as men, but something about that prospect spooks em.

AcidKritana · 2022-02-16T02:11:34+00:00

Widespread phenomenon. Literally, as a trans man, I've faced several instances of transmisandry alone (countless of misandry in general), and I've come across literally countless examples where I saw transmisandry happen. I've also gotten into arguments with people over this. It's mostly trans men (out of the trans community) I've seen say that transmisandry is real, while I've only seen one trans woman so far say it's real. It's really sad, and I hope more people end up acknowledging it soon.

BloomingBrains · 2021-11-15T07:46:19+00:00

My experience with progressives, especially transactivists, is that that pronouns are basically their berserk button. I once triggered a witch hunt against me even though I was actually supporting a transwoman simply because I called her "he" while talking as if from the perspective of how the opposition would view her. It made sense in context, and it was also totally hypothetical, but it still pissed them off.

Because of that, it astounds me they can take a transmen and say they're experiencing misogyny since that implies they're a woman. Only women can experience misogyny. Ergo, they just called him a woman, according to their own logic.

I agree that it might make sense to say someone is experiencing sexism related to their birth sex, though, since we're talking about how bigots would see them. It's been brought up before that people say things like "that's just a man in a dress", referencing the fact that men (which is what they perceive the person as) can't wear dresses, which is misandry.

So if they were willing to admit the converse, that transmisogyny is sometimes actually misandry, then I would be more inclined to agree. But saying that both are misogyny shows an incredible bias.

ffynidwydd · 2024-05-18T22:54:57+00:00

As a transman I have been told that transmisandry is just a transphobia and misogyny because transmen "discriminated according their agab" and "misandry isn't real" 🤦‍♂️ in general is a typical undervaluing misandry to "special case"

Title	"Transmisandry is actually just transmisogyny!"
Author	AverageUnique
Upvotes	75
Comments	17
Date	November 13, 2021 4:14 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/qt4ey4/transmisandry_is_actually_just_transmisogyny/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/transmisandry-is-actually-just-transmisogyny.1084311 https://theredarchive.com/post/1084311

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