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Ayaan Hirsi Ali: It’s time for feminists to say #MenToo

shit-zen-giggles · 2022-08-12T15:15:45+00:00

When I first read Christina Hoff Sommers's 2000 book The War Against Boys: How Misguided Feminism Is Harming Our Young Men, I admit that I was puzzled....

shit-zen-giggles

August 12, 2022

94 upvotes

/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates

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Title	Ayaan Hirsi Ali: It’s time for feminists to say #MenToo
Author	shit-zen-giggles
Upvotes	94
Comments	23
Date	August 12, 2022 3:15 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/wmns3q/ayaan_hirsi_ali_its_time_for_feminists_to_say/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/ayaan-hirsi-ali-its-time-for-feminists-to-say.1127589 https://theredarchive.com/post/1127589

Comments

[–][deleted] 57 points58 points59 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]shit-zen-giggles[S] 14 points15 points16 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points26 points 3 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Zaronaxleft-wing male advocate 36 points37 points38 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Indeed.

The arc of Feminism is reaching it's maturity. This is, completely, the logical conclusion of a movement that was gendered from the very start, a movement that saw the woes of the other gender and decided they didn't want the woes, they only wanted the positives.

The right to vote without conscription, as a famous example.

They saw men dying in droves in hard workplaces; some women wanted access to these places because they were interested in the jobs but many thought it wasn't for them. They'd much rather have a safe and secure work environment that valued them beyond what their bodies could bring up until their bodies couldn't bear the workload required for the job.

Look at the amount of broken bodies in our parents' ages. Our grandparents had it rough, with weaker tools and less sophistication, but the amount of work they had to do was also less.

As an example, when I started working in a sprinkler company, we'd do about 2000 pipe heads with cuts and everything (along with the pipe cuts ordered on the jobs) every month but when I ended up leaving, we were doing between 4500-5000. With an increase in pipe cuts ordered, as well. They went from 55 workers on the road to a whopping 80! All of this, in 3 years. That company dated from my grandfather's time. He worked for it since the very start.

Some women want to come into these jobs and many can do it, too. But many look at this, then look at the very real problems that come with them (my father has 2 collapsed muscles, one in each arm, and a completely deteriorated one in his shoulder plate at the ripe age of... 48. He was 43 when it started really kicking in, with the tearing happening slowly and incredibly painfully.) and they decide they'd rather not have these consequences. So, they'd rather come up with "wage gaps" myths to try and get paid more for doing jobs that are as important but much, MUCH less risky on the long term.

And we'd also rather have these jobs that don't require our bodies to break down before we even reach a ripe age. But someone has to do it, and it sure as hell won't be from a push of "equity" in these jobs.

So, Feminism has reached it's end goal. It wanted political power and it mostly has it, now, in Western Countries. Dissent is discouraged and attacked, disagreements are viewed as personal insults and hate, while any questioning of the dogma is viewed as heretical and worth a witch hunt.

But what Feminism, and by extension Feminists, have come to realize, is that... The world they expected to be built better for them... just isn't that great. They built it, so surely it should be better, right? Well, no, it's not.

So what went wrong? Well, Manspreading! Or maybe, the Wage Gap? Maybe it's the non-equitable spread in STEM fields? Education? Spending? Or maybe it's Patriarchy. Yes, that must be it! Forces are working behind the curtains to keep men in power, men who are always over privileged and who's policies aimed at aiding women and propping up women are just covers, covers for their real goals.

Basically, Feminism has all the power it can logically potentially have in the West, but to their incredible disappointment, it's simply not as glamorous as they thought it would be. So it needs new enemies. A new scarecrow to rally the troops, to point as the enemy, an enemy stronger than ever before that they must defeat once and for all.

And since they can't actually find this enemy, regardless of how hard they're looking... They are starting to self-cannibalize. They're starting to No True Scotsman one another, and this will happen until only the most zealous amongst them remain, the traitors flushed out.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Fast-Mongoose-4989 16 points17 points18 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Man_of_culture_112left-wing male advocate 9 points10 points11 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Grand_Ad_864 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Phantombiceps 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]Pasolini123 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]shit-zen-giggles[S] 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]heretik 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]shit-zen-giggles[S] 4 points5 points6 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]heretik 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]shit-zen-giggles[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Do I understand you correctly in that you suggest that the underlieing instinctual agency attribution difference overwrites the politicly informed attribution preference?

If so, I think you definitely have a point there. In most of the above mentioned 'systemic causes' explainations/attributions the perpetrator is either virtual ('the system') or at least very abstract ('the bourgeoisie', 'the 1%', etc). In order for men's issues to align with this attribution pattern, lefties would need to see women as a bourgeoisie like class and then the moment such a perspective forms the underlieing instinctual pattern kicks in and interviens along the lines of 'must protect teh wimmenz' which then get's post hoc rationalized in the higher layers of conciousness as 'men do it to themselves'.

Embarking from that premise one could conclude that in order for men's issues advocacy on the left to be successful the advocate would have to carefully avoid the classic 'systemic causes' avenue of leftist reasoning but rather focus on the '(the system enables an) individual purpetrator' approach that can be found often in environmentalist activism when going after polluting companies.

[–]OhRing 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]34T_y3r_v3ggi3s 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Phantombiceps 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]34T_y3r_v3ggi3s 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Phantombiceps 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

I disagree with that assessment particularly on the topic of people like Ali. Everything you are saying about revisionism, Foucault, Lincoln etc i can’t disagree with.

But i do claim there is a massive movement afoot to paint enlightenment values as being uniquely Judeo christian. Mainstream commentators call native Americans savages again , though in more polite terms. Daily Wire comes to mind.

MENA and central Asia is seen as backward on its own, as people like ALI give us a false dilemma of internal responsibility or blaming the western forces, - when clearly it is both. Islam may have always been brutal, but this has been exacerbated by geopolitics and wall street.

Even more common is the total lack of knowledge about western militarism, capitalism and imperialism. It is commonplace to hear that stalin or mao killed millions, as if that is a higher number than their western counterparts or anti-communism killed. Another good example is the demonization of china in world affairs, as if they have a worse international record than the US or UK, or were never invaded by both of them. Latin america is similar.

There is zero context or understanding how western treatment of the ussr and Russia contributed to the rise of Putin and the oligarchy there. But i digress

[–]34T_y3r_v3ggi3s -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

There is zero context or understanding how western treatment of the USSR snd Russia contributed to the rise of Putin and the oligarchy there.

More blame America first nonsense. The USSR was treated the way it was by the west because of how it treated its own people. Much of the Soviet's woes were entirely self inflicted. Was it America's fault they decided to invade Afghanistan and miserably fail at that, which not only exacerbated the Cold War but also led to the USSR'S inevitable demise? Was it America's fault that Russia has been invading their neighbors since the dawn of their existence as a nation? If you mean Putin wanting to expand former territory of the USSR (of which was originally annexed by the Soviets to begin with way back at the beginning of the USSR), then yeah, I suppose the Soviets were "mistreated." Much in the same way the Nazis or ISIS were "mistreated" by the west: start wars, deservedly lose them, and then pin the failure of your country or ideology on the very enemy you provoked in the first place.

People are people. Some insane world leaders are going to wage war on other countries regardless of whether or not America was involved. You're literally using the same logic some of the world's most horrific human rights abusers use. Salman Rushdie was recently a victim of people who subscribe to similar thinking.

[–]Phantombiceps 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link