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TIL that Sex between minors is straight up illegal in India. If an underage boy has consensual sex with an underage girl and the police finds out, the boy will probably be charged with rape

rakulkumar555

September 12, 2022
742 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.pulj.org/the-roundtable/consensual-sex-between-minors-in-india-a-case-for-legalization
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Title TIL that Sex between minors is straight up illegal in India. If an underage boy has consensual sex with an underage girl and the police finds out, the boy will probably be charged with rape
Author

rakulkumar555

Upvotes 742
Comments 77
Date September 12, 2022 7:53 AM UTC
(3 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/xc6qdp/til_that_sex_between_minors_is_straight_up/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/til-that-sex-between-minors-is-straight-up-illegal.1131325
https://theredarchive.com/post/1131325
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Comments

[–]Greg_W_Allan 237 points238 points239 points 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

India has arrested adolescent boys because the adult women who molested them fell pregnant in the act. Meanwhile 53% of underage Indian victims are boys and I have little doubt victims of female perps are not included.

[–][deleted] 47 points48 points49 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Hey do you have a source I’d like to read more on this

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points37 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Here’s one instance I remember.

[–]Inevitable_Brain9852 26 points27 points28 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

And nobodies denying it either. Both the sister and brother said the sister forced him into sex. Yet they still locked him up.

[–]damnthislogin -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

What the absolute fck.....? Okay still better than the pakistani, drunken brothers friends mass rape the 13 y.o. sister then after the childbirth she gets stoned to death, but still...

[–]Net_Flux3 -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Can you give me the source for this nonsense? It's men who are far more likely to be stoned for being raped by females in tradcon shitholes and it's a well-known fact that death penalties and "punishments" in general are far more severe and frequent for men in ALL countries, no exceptions. Pakistan is much like India in terms of its anti-male laws and society.

[–]damnthislogin 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

https://www.amazon.com/Princess-True-Story-Behind-Saudi/dp/0967673747

https://www.churchinneed.org/pakistani-catholic-girl-kidnapped-and-forced-to-convert-to-islam-has-been-raped-and-is-pregnant/

Similar cases, the original pakistani case i cant find right now.

In arab countries as far as i know you need 4 women to testify against 1 man "opinion." A woman's word means nothing against a man's.

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[–]Net_Flux3 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Where is the "drunken brothers friends mass rape the 13 y.o. sister then after the childbirth she gets stoned to death", part? Especially the "stoned to death by authorities" part? What you don't understand is the activity of kidnapping or raping women is illegal in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, unlike female on male rape, which is legal in most of the world and can even get the male punished. And of course speaking out about the Saudi Royal family is dangerous for anyone, not just women. Remember Jamal Kashoggi?

You know what is legal in parts of the world apart from female on male rape? Groom kidnapping in India, wherein it's the groom and his entire family who would be thrown in jail should he dare complain about his captors and rapists using female-biased dowry laws.

[–]dw87190 42 points43 points44 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

WOW India, just wow

[–]buppyu 73 points74 points75 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

But not the girl, of course. She, conveniently, doesn't have agency all the sudden. Boys never get to renounce their agency.

[–]Aimless-Nomad 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

female hypoagency and male hyperagency

[–]KazukiYahashi 34 points35 points36 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I read something similar about California. Based on what I read, it’s illegal for ANYONE there to have sex under 18, even if both are minors. Right?

[–]neos7m 40 points41 points42 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

But does one of the two get charged with statutory rape (and the other one doesn't) because of his gender? If both get charged, it's a shitty law, but at least it's equal. If only the boy does, it's discrimination

[–]KazukiYahashi 13 points14 points15 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Basically, this:

However, when both parties are under the age of 18, it is uncommon for either of them to face statutory rape charges. The reason is that it is difficult to determine which of the two willing parties is to be considered the victim and which is the perpetrator. In reality, the law says that they are both criminals and victims, so prosecutors will likely decline to charge either person with the crime. Instead, the two minors may be asked to visit their local probation department to discuss the dangers of sex before adulthood.

[–]denyjunctionfunction 22 points23 points24 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Almost like they should just add a law like most other states that eliminates this legal grey area so that less time, effort, and money is wasted.

[–]SlaverRaver 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Other than pregnancy, what’s the danger of two minors going at it?

I lost my V when I was under 18 with a female (currently my girlfriend) who was of the same age.

Genuine Question

[–]kafka123 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I've heard that too. It's not just India that has stupid laws about this. It seems to apply to CP laws as well, which is a scary prospect if you're, say, a 14 year old on snapchat with your crush at school.

[–]Diesel-66 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Correct unless married.

[–][deleted] 52 points53 points54 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Which reminds me: There was an incident in India last year where a teen girl raped her younger brother.

First off, the media decided to play the don’t say rape game yet again by saying she ‘forced him to have sex’. Second, even through she at least had the decency to admit that she was the one who did it, her younger brother was still the one to be punished. It honestly sickens me how people can be this retarded.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Shit like this is why aliens will never just land on the White House lawn and throw a coming down party. Zoo theory is 100% correct. Sad.

[–]setharvayo1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (13 children) | Copy Link

India seems line a shithole

[–]Digital_Demon7 17 points18 points19 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So is my country, Pakistan

[–]SabunFC 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I heard many parts of Pakistan are currently underwater? Is that true?

How are you doing?

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It is.

[–]Iamyournewdaddy1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (9 children) | Copy Link

Better than Americans who just go on circumcising newborns

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Circumcision happens in India too, particularly among the Muslim population.

[–]Iamyournewdaddy1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

ONLY among the Muslim population, they’ll burn the country to ground the moment we try to stop them and it’s still much better than infants getting circumcised for non religious reasons

[–]pssiraj 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Except it's been based on religious reasons.

[+]reversejoerogan -7 points-6 points-5 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

particularly among the Muslim population

And Brahmins

[–]ANIKET_UPADHYAY 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Nope. Brahmans don't do that. What made you think that?

[–]reversejoerogan -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

In South India, Bangalore, Brahmins circumcise at an event called "munji".

[–]ANIKET_UPADHYAY 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Source?

I never heard about it? Are sure you don't mean "Munja" -" janeu dharn"

[–]reversejoerogan -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Source?

All my classmates and friends of over 30 years and their kids

[–]ANIKET_UPADHYAY 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Might be a small sect of brahmins.

Munja ceremony is where you are given a sacred thread to wear around your torso.

Never even heard of this circumcision thing in my entire life.

[–]Stompya 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

And yet the 2015-16 data estimates 25.6% of girls under 18 are married. (See the statistics section.)

[–]KingKookus 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I’d bet there is a law that says if it’s your wife then it’s not illegal. Which is crazy.

[–]krampyphil 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No, it's still illegal.

https://punemirror.com/news/india/sex-with-an-underage-wife-is-rape-rules-sc/cid5117739.htm

[–]kingslayer9901 points 3 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

How do they count these stats if they are not getting legal marriage certificates? Sounds bs to me…also why aren’t there stats of boys married below 18?

[–]Stompya 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This reaction is part of the problem: “I haven’t seen it, this can’t be real.” It’s part of what started the “Me too” and “believe all women” campaigns (which were problematic, just saying they were a kickback against disbelief every time a victim raised a fuss).

UNICEF - graphic showing how globally it is a huge problem (21%). Elsewhere on their site they say it happens to boys about 1/6th as often as girls.

Dataset you can query by country

Our World in Data child marriage data with an interactive map.

There’s a lot more if you go looking. Stuff like this doesn’t get bragged about in the local news but that doesn’t mean it isn’t real.

[–]Mammoth_Cut5134 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Marriage doesn't necessarily mean sex. They have sex when they turm 18.

[–]Stompya -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

… do you believe that though?

If someone is willing to marry a child, they aren’t really thinking about what’s best for the child.

[–]Mammoth_Cut5134 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

What if they both are minors which is what child marriage is.

[–]Stompya 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You’ll note it’s mostly girls married young. Are you denying this is a real problem?

[–]Mammoth_Cut5134 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Child marriage in india is different. Both guy and girl are minors. Are you saying that a 11 year old boy is more mature than a 9 year old girl? Thry both are ducking minors.

[–]Stompya 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No, I’m saying neither are ready for marriage.

The new estimates bring the total number of child brides and child grooms to 765 million. Girls remain disproportionately affected, with 1 in 5 young women aged 20 to 24 years old married before their 18th birthday, compared to 1 in 30 young men. (Source)

This is worldwide data, not India-specific, but data on child grooms is more difficult to find than brides. Still, it’s myopic to say all child marriages in India - which again is abhorrent no matter the sex or relative age of the children - are all of children close together in age.

It’s quite clear this issue does affect girls far more than boys. If it’s 1 child groom to every 5 child brides then you still have hundreds of millions of underage girls married to adult males.

I’m not sure what you are defending, as though an 11-year-old boy married to an 8-year-old girl is ok…? Am I missing something?

[–]Mammoth_Cut5134 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Bro I replied to a comment which was talking about india. The post is also about india. I am indian so I know what child marriages used to be like here. Child marriage has been outlawed in India since 1929. The disproportionate female statistics you are talking about is because of mulsim sharia law. Its not the traditional indian child marriage which was happening in certain parts of india. I never said any of these things are good. But you should know the difference between traditional child marriage and muslim child marriage.

[–]TAPriceCTR 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

I don't agree with the sex based discrimination, but if someone is old enough to choose to have sex they're old enough to choose who they have sex with. If someone is too young for the state to respect their consent then it must be rejected regardless of who their chosen partner is.

[–]Onithyr 9 points10 points11 points 3 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

The problem with that is that when it happens you either end up in a situation where (like in India) only one sex is held responsible, or the equally ridiculous situation where both people are treated as having raped each other.

[–]TAPriceCTR 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

I don't disagree with a word of that. Society needs to recognize "not all illegal sex must be 'rape'".

[–]matrixislife -5 points-4 points-3 points 3 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

Or take the opposite view, I'd say yeah, two minors having sex would be considered mutual rape as neither are able to consent. Assuming similar ages etc, I don't see a need to punish either severely, maybe ground them for a month.

[–]TAPriceCTR 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (12 children) | Copy Link

Sorry, but I don't see someone's age being the difference between "let the parents ground them, no need for legal intervention" and "a crime so severe is not uncommon for people to STILL support lynching". If minors having sex is too be illegal (as it should) then adults (including teachers and school administrators) who encourage/facilitate them to have sex with peers should be punished no less severely than had they encouraged/ facilitated them to have sex with another adult.

[–]matrixislife 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Age is a factor in many situations, if two kids have a fight then they might end up grounded. If two adults have a fight they might end up in jail for assault.

Anyone encouragine minors to have sex with each other are definitely on immoral if not illegal grounds, I would imagine there are legal punishments for this already quite correctly, but that's not the question here.
The question was, "not all illegal sex must be rape". We've had a hell of a time recently with redefining words, so let's not try to redefine this one as well, in some sort of age-related way. You can argue that two kids having sex isn't rape because neither are being coerced, which isn't quite the same as without consent. And considering consent is not possible with a minor it is still rape. What IS in question is whether there needs to be a serious punishment for it, I think not when everything is equal, it's a very tricky judgement call.

[–]TAPriceCTR 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

Didn't say it's not a factor, I said age isn't the difference between "oh, you little scamp" and 🎼🎵we're not safe until he's dead. he'll come stalking us at night. Set to sacrifice our children to his monstrous appetite🎵

No, it's not illegal for adults to encourage/facilitate minors having sex. Schools distribute condoms and the government will give 12 year olds abortions without parental consent.

See, this is where you're letting feminists define everything. That "consent" standard was so the meaning could more readily creep. What makes "rape" horrific is that it is undermining someone's will to NOT have sex... when a 12 year old uses livelinks (preinternet tinder) to get sex with men, her will IS TO have sex.

But even with the consent standard... consent isn't some mystical sex focused power we developat 18. It isn't even some human only ability. It is literally to express willingness. This can be expressed through words or actions and it is a part of every day life. When you walk up to airport security, the very act of walking up is implying "consent" to be searched. Stop letting feminism romanticize and redefine the word consent.

Plain and simple, it is an insult to the suffering of ACTUAL RAPE victims to shove wilful (even aggressive) sexual participants under their umbrella. I have 2 family (1 is quazi family) members who, if asked about their childhood trauma speak of their parents efforts to prevent them from having sex, the quazi family one even broke down crying (as we were catching up in our 30s) not over what "he did to her" but for feeling guilt over what he parents and the law did to him in her name against her will.

[–]matrixislife -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

It's not feminism that defines consent, it's the legal system. They decide the age of consent, and any other factors affecting it like being in authority over the kids in question. This was set in 1875, well before feminism was a thing.
The whole "mitigate the harm done" is not the same as encouraging kids to have sex. Ensuring contraception is available is not encouraging sex, it's been debated and argued over for decades, since I was a kid and needing contraception, which was available thankfully.

You seem to be using the old-style "she never said no" argument. Idgaf how much work a 12 year old has put in to have sex, they are still underage and it's still a crime for an adult to do it, quite rightly.
You should consider the concept of capacity. Consent can only be given if you have the [mental] capacity to do so. This can be affected by a lot of things, including degenerative disease, injury, lack of correct brain formation, drugs/alcohol, etc.
Most countries agree that young people do not have capacity to consent because their brains have not developed fully, they do not understand the consequences of the decision they are making. It's not "is the kid willing", it's "the kid doesn't understand what he/she is agreeing to".

When it comes to 2 kids having sex, the argument applies to both of them, which is why I don't feel a legal solution is worthwhile, better to educate them both so they know the dangers involved.

[–]TAPriceCTR 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Feminism has been a thing since Caroline Norton wrote the tender years doctrine. It may not have been named yet, but feminism is much older than you think.

it's still a crime for an adult to do it, quite rightly

I never said a word contrary to this. I said it's not rape. When you make all illegal sex rape you water down the word rape. The idea that Mary Kay Leturneau is categoricaly the same thing as Joseph Rosenbaum is atrocious. When I hear the word "rape" I want to know that it was an act of violence.

Consent can only be given if you have the [mental] capacity to do so. This can be affected by a lot of things, including degenerative disease,

This was the argument by which a congressman was charged for rape for having consentual sex with his wife of decades.

[–]matrixislife 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

I run into that particular concern working with dementia patients, you get similar issues with certain learning difficulty patients. The problem in this case, if they haven't got capacity to make a decision, how can they give consent for sex? It's a valid concern.

Yeah, I'm aware of the about-turn with the tender years doctrine.
I'm quite happy with the concept of statutory rape, I don't feel a need to redefine it.

[–]excess_inquisitivity 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I like that kids are told not to have sex with each other.

The problem is the assumption that, if sex happens, it must be the boy's fault.

[–]blaizken_420 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I noticed a disproportionate number of MRAs from India. I now see why.

[–]yamheisenberg 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

False accusations are a HUGE problem in India too. Just two years ago, a 14 y/o bloke took his own life because he was falsely accused of rape. Afraid of the consequences, he took his life. Read the “boys locker room” story.

[–]Aliteraldog 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's the worldwide norm

[–]NoTimeAtAll420 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

India dont need no more procreating.

[–]thegoodearthquake 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You can get rape charges while being in a live in relationship. Rules are crazy

[–]shogun_coc 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fuck the gender biased laws! These laws have made innocent men suffer in India. Even if a man is raped by a woman, he is to be punished for his "crimes", while the rapist is Scot free! What the fuck is wrong with my country?

[–]Inevitable_Brain9852 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Not the girl though? They just call him the rapist?

[–]shogun_coc 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. In India, unfortunately, the victim of rape by women is the "rapist"!

[–]Informal_Ad2191 points 3 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Great Britan did not civilised those savages enough.

[–]JollyFawn90 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s just not cool.

[–]5fingerdiscounts -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

But real rapists don’t get charged with rape?

[–]tamal4444 -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah. They have jail free card.

[–]kafka1231 points 3 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

India is a weird place, because you'd think that a place that was bad for men's rights would be bad due to overzealous attempts to make things easier for women (I don't mean that feminism is bad or that men's rights isn't due to patriarchy or sexism, just that, for instance, you'd expect a place that charged men with sexual harassment on a whim to assume that the culture is one that currently supports women a lot), but in India, women's oppression seems to work in tandem with widespread prejudice against men.

[–]maniteja7 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A hyper conservative society oppresses both men and women in different ways. It's not that the law makers lack of wisdom or there is some deep conspiracy behind sanction of such laws. It's just how the society is and the laws are made so because of it.

[–]KingKookus 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What happens if you underage girls have sex? Who do they blame?

[–]_Remember_me_not_ 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Honour killing" was all the fad few years back when it was in news that some communities in India have punishments even for the simple act of a girls wearing "jeans" instead of traditional dresses and youth marrying outside of their community/caste were outright thrashed, excommunicated and even murdered.

[–]human-potato_hybrid 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Also Kansas if under 16

[–]AdFit7346 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

India is a failed state. Has been for like 1000 years

[–]shogun_coc 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Reconsider your statement. Your statement makes no sense and has no concrete value. If you don't know anything about a country, don't speak.

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